Ye Religion Thread

[reaper]

Umm, ok, so your saying you don't know whether or not you actually truelly believe in God or not.
Wounderful smiley_aaos

i've always said the same thing, and it hasn't been there is a god and i'm positive.

[DaHanG]

I guess since you don

[QuakeDuke]

Well, shucks...

I thought I'd drop by and see if anything has changed ..... it hasn't.

Lots and lots of talk based on personal experiences & NO tangible evidence NOT tied to someone's personal experience....

Too bad personal experiences don't prove anything.....


QD

[DaHanG]

but how far does that so-called "free-will" extend?
can we decide as a species that we don't want god around anymore?
will he abide by our decision because he gave us the choice to do what we please?

Of course. Haven't you noticed, we've already done a great deal of that. We told God we didn't want him messing around our schools anymore, so he stepped aside. "Hmmm, gee wiz Wally, why does Timmy have that AK47 and a strange look in his eye ???"
Oh, and while we we're at it, we also told God to get his nose out of our goverments business. We do have seperation of church and state ya know. So he stepped aside there to, and took his vail of protection with him. "Look, it's a Bird, it's a PLane, no it's Super Osama !!!!"
Seperation of church and state was meant to keep goverment from being run by a church and churches from being run by the goverment. But hell, we've made sure to take it to such extremes you can't even be caught with a small nativity scene on a court house square without 30 lashes.

Due to the typos and content, I will refrain from producing a well thought out response. I have a question though, if shoving god away from us was the cause for all these problems, why is it that the highly secular Scandinavian countries are among the most generous in terms of helping the developing world, as well as enjoying higher standards of living themselves by almost any index?

there is no such thing as a perfect world.

This is man's world, not God's. We have free will.

Got that right. Amen. God made it for us. It's ours. How else do you think it could get screwed up so bad.

There

[DaHanG]

Well, shucks...

I thought I'd drop by and see if anything has changed ..... it hasn't.

Lots and lots of talk based on personal experiences & NO tangible evidence NOT tied to someone's personal experience....

Too bad personal experiences don't prove anything.....


QD

Oh, but they can! I highly encourage you to go back and look at the context of which I said that. Religious experiences don't prove anything.

[QuakeDuke]

Well, shucks...

I thought I'd drop by and see if anything has changed ..... it hasn't.

Lots and lots of talk based on personal experiences & NO tangible evidence NOT tied to someone's personal experience....

Too bad personal experiences don't prove anything.....


QD

Oh, but they can! I highly encourage you to go back and look at the context of which I said that. Religious experiences don't prove anything.

Nope. Sorry. No prize. You edited your post to specify religious experiences AFTER I asked you twice if  you meant what you said which was "personal experiences prove nothing."

QD

[quadz]

Well, shucks...

I thought I'd drop by and see if anything has changed ..... it hasn't.

Lots and lots of talk based on personal experiences & NO tangible evidence NOT tied to someone's personal experience....

Too bad personal experiences don't prove anything.....

Howdy, QD!

I'm a little puzzled by this, and I wonder if we might be engaged in a quibble over semantics.

To me, personal experiences prove as a given the person having these experiences is alive.

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

Umm, ok, so your saying you don't know whether or not you actually truelly believe in God or not.
Wounderful smiley_aaos

i've always said the same thing, and it hasn't been there is a god and i'm positive.

[DaHanG]

Well, shucks...

I thought I'd drop by and see if anything has changed ..... it hasn't.

Lots and lots of talk based on personal experiences & NO tangible evidence NOT tied to someone's personal experience....

Too bad personal experiences don't prove anything.....


QD

Oh, but they can! I highly encourage you to go back and look at the context of which I said that. Religious experiences don't prove anything.

Nope. Sorry. No prize. You edited your post to specify religious experiences AFTER I asked you twice if  you meant what you said which was "personal experiences prove nothing."

QD

First of all, my initial post still does not mention the word "religious", so you are certainly mistaken. the link is here: http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=4240.msg62527#msg62527. Since I've been accused of dishonesty, quadz is there any way you can somehow see what my original post was? I really hope this is possible as I take offense to your accusation. It really does seem you're unforgiving to word games based on this and the whole free will thing since your approach has been condescending in both instances.

[DaHanG]

Well, shucks...

I thought I'd drop by and see if anything has changed ..... it hasn't.

Lots and lots of talk based on personal experiences & NO tangible evidence NOT tied to someone's personal experience....

Too bad personal experiences don't prove anything.....

Howdy, QD!

I'm a little puzzled by this, and I wonder if we might be engaged in a quibble over semantics.

To me, personal experiences prove as a given the person having these experiences is alive.  Having a personal experience may not prove one is even conscious, though.  (Dreams are personal experiences, no?)  As far as I can tell, personal experiences don't prove much beyond that one is capable of having such experiences.  As far as what one's personal experiences might indicate... then we enter another realm about reasoning about one's experiences.

Now I'm not meaning to quibble over semantics just to be difficult; it's just that the above is what went through my head, roughly, when dahang first made the statement that personal experience proves nothing.

So it seems you may have something else in mind about what personal experience might prove; in which case I'm definitely interested in your viewpoint.

(But it's not my intention to steer us toward Clinton territory, i.e., "it depends on what your definition of is, is." )


Regards,

quadz

Although I see your point (and agree), my original intent was of the spiritual/religious experience.

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

Due to the typos and content, I will refrain from producing a well thought out response.

To lazy to use MSN Word.
Blame Quads, no spell check on forum.

God doesn't bless these kids with cancer, we do. Through our free will to engage in pollution, food additives, tobacco use, drug use, alchahol abuse, and many many other varibles. All these things lead to bad things for the living, AND OR screw up our DNA to insure our kids get it when, and in some cases, before they're born.
Most innocent people are continually suffering in ways in which their free will was defanitly a factor.
Although some suffer for the betterment of others.
Example: Kid born blind though an act of God, grows up, learns to deal with it, teaches others people blinded by acts of man how to cope and deal with it. Enstead of cursing God for his aflection, he thanks God for choosing him or her to help other.

I would like the evidence of your claims that all these factors literally cause birth defects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_packaging_warning_signs

In early 2006 a new initiative was introduced, with graphic images depicting the effects of smoking cigarettes to be displayed on cigarette packets. As of March 1, warnings must cover 30% of the front and 90% of the back of the box. [1]

The Australian warnings had previously consisted of six rotating messages occupying 25% of the front of the box. These warnings were:

smoking causes lung cancer
smoking is addictive
smoking kills
smoking causes heart disease
smoking when pregnant harms your baby
your smoking can harm others
Additionally, 33% of the back of the box contained detailed information about the harm of smoking. The information related to the specific warning used on the front.

Furthermore, each box must display (occupying an entire side of the pack) information regarding the tar, nicotine and carbon monoxide content of each cigarette.

[DaHanG]

Due to the typos and content, I will refrain from producing a well thought out response.

To lazy to use MSN Word.
Blame Quads, no spell check on forum.

Word still can't fix content. 

I was hoping you would respond to:

I have a question though, if shoving god away from us was the cause for all these problems, why is it that the highly secular Scandinavian countries are among the most generous in terms of helping the developing world, as well as enjoying higher standards of living themselves by almost any index?

God doesn't bless these kids with cancer, we do. Through our free will to engage in pollution, food additives, tobacco use, drug use, alchahol abuse, and many many other varibles. All these things lead to bad things for the living, AND OR screw up our DNA to insure our kids get it when, and in some cases, before they're born.
Most innocent people are continually suffering in ways in which their free will was defanitly a factor.
Although some suffer for the betterment of others.
Example: Kid born blind though an act of God, grows up, learns to deal with it, teaches others people blinded by acts of man how to cope and deal with it. Enstead of cursing God for his aflection, he thanks God for choosing him or her to help other.

I would like the evidence of your claims that all these factors literally cause birth defects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_packaging_warning_signs

In early 2006 a new initiative was introduced, with graphic images depicting the effects of smoking cigarettes to be displayed on cigarette packets. As of March 1, warnings must cover 30% of the front and 90% of the back of the box. [1]

The Australian warnings had previously consisted of six rotating messages occupying 25% of the front of the box. These warnings were:

smoking causes lung cancer
smoking is addictive
smoking kills
smoking causes heart disease
smoking when pregnant harms your baby
your smoking can harm others
Additionally, 33% of the back of the box contained detailed information about the harm of smoking. The information related to the specific warning used on the front.

Furthermore, each box must display (occupying an entire side of the pack) information regarding the tar, nicotine and carbon monoxide content of each cigarette.

I

[quadz]

First of all, my initial post still does not mention the word "religious", so you are certainly mistaken. the link is here: http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=4240.msg62527#msg62527. Since I've been accused of dishonesty, quadz is there any way you can somehow see what my original post was? I really hope this is possible as I take offense to your accusation.

There's no history of previous post data; however the timestamp shows it hasn't been edited since that same day it was initially posted (jan 27).

[quadz]

God doesn't bless these kids with cancer, we do. Through our free will to engage in pollution, food additives, tobacco use, drug use, alchahol abuse, and many many other varibles.

That idea doesn't fit historical evidence, though.

The fossil record provides evidence of life expectancy before even modern notions of God were invented by early civilized humans.

We had a crappy life expectancy of 20-30 odd years for most of our species history.

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

I was hoping you would respond to:

I have a question though, if shoving god away from us was the cause for all these problems, why is it that the highly secular Scandinavian countries are among the most generous in terms of helping the developing world, as well as enjoying higher standards of living themselves by almost any index?

Well I was hoping you or quads would respond to this. Neither of you have. Only reaper. And trying understand him gives me an aneurysm. sie

Well I'm off work tonight, tomarrow, and Tuesday. So I have plenty of time to debate.
First of all no one ever said anything about this.

Revelation 13
 16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Well the Beast is already here. It