you could assume that God has to be fine-tuned in order to be able to create universes.
Quote from: metal on January 27, 2007, 07:55:01 PMmy sole belief is that there must have been some outside entity facilitating the creation of the universe (multi-verse?), as opposed to shit "just happening".[...] perhaps some of you should think for once, instead of just going along with what some scientists say. oh wait, they can't teach common sense, guess some of you are out of luckClearly such an outside entity is too perfect to have "just happened". It must have been created. Obviously anyone who doesn't comprehend this is an idiot and is out of luck due to lack of common sense.
my sole belief is that there must have been some outside entity facilitating the creation of the universe (multi-verse?), as opposed to shit "just happening".[...] perhaps some of you should think for once, instead of just going along with what some scientists say. oh wait, they can't teach common sense, guess some of you are out of luck
of course you can assume what you want, my point was whether or not he would need to be fined tuned would be beyond comprehension
my sole belief is that there must have been some outside entity facilitating the creation of the universe (multi-verse?), as opposed to shit "just happening".
you didnt understand what i was saying, a common theme within this thread.
Quote from: reaper on January 28, 2007, 04:53:34 PMof course you can assume what you want, my point was whether or not he would need to be fined tuned would be beyond comprehensionAnd, so...? 1. How was the universe created? 2. It is "beyond comprehension", so let's say God did it. 3. How was God created? 4. Oh, that's "beyond comprehension" too.If all you're doing is replacing the first "beyond comprehension" thing (creation of a universe), with a new "beyond comprehension" thing (existence of God), I really don't know why one would bother. Why not just stick with the original "beyond comprehension" fact that the universe exists, and leave it at that?I just don't see the point... Regards,quadz
since i believe in god, i'm going to need a reasonable explanation for the latter to change my belief. also, it looks at this point, as though something is required to fine tune this universe.
in reaper's case, the fact that the human race believes in god is probably a contributing factor in choosing highly complex beginnings over simple beginnings. it's evident here that he begins with the assumption that god exists, waiting for evidence to refute it (impossible):
the "beyond comprehension" problem quadz addresses is something that humankind makes synonomous with god. almost in a sense, as seemingly demonstrated by reaper, that "beyond comprehension = god".
i don't think we know enough[/u] to say that matter/energy being there is less complex than god.
Quote from: dahangthe "beyond comprehension" problem quadz addresses is something that humankind makes synonomous with god. almost in a sense, as seemingly demonstrated by reaper, that "beyond comprehension = god".yes, we were assuming there was a god, and god=beyond comprehension
it will be shown that my position is correct, perhaps not until after death, and i will be rewarded for my faith." (as presented by deathstalker above for example). this sort of optimistic state of mind is unshakable.
Well, according to all of those that study and know physics, even Hawkins, information CANNOT be lost, even in a black hole
Death is just a higher form of conciseness.
You take all that knowledge and information with you.
Your still alive, just in a better, more superior form.
Quote from: DaHanG on January 28, 2007, 11:55:15 PMit will be shown that my position is correct, perhaps not until after death, and i will be rewarded for my faith." (as presented by deathstalker above for example). this sort of optimistic state of mind is unshakable.Very true, but i'm not going on faith alone. I'll have to research it and find the exact experiment when I have more time, but there was an experiment back in the 30s i believe that showed that the soul has mass. Basically the experiment went like this, A man put on scales weighed something like a 1/2 gram or a gram less upon death.Dieing and your soul going to heaven could actually be "Dieing and your life force ( your soul, a form of pure energy containing all that you know, all that you learned, and all that you are) being released from your body and thus being able to then evolve into a higher conciseness. A form not able to peacfully exist in this realm, dimension, whatever. So now you've evolved into this higher conciseness and move on into a new realm, dimension, whatever. There you will see able to see or even be shown everything with the evolved abilty now to comprehend it all.
Here is a question.a few people here has quoted Hawkins. Well, according to all of those that study and know physics, even Hawkins, information CANNOT be lost, even in a black hole. So what about all the information in you when you die. Where does is go??? It's gota be somewhere???Death is just a higher form of conciseness. You take all that knowledge and information with you. Your still alive, just in a better, more superior form.So yes, it's faith and belief in God that makes me say that, but it is also something I believe that could be backed up by some form of scientific theory.
by definition we can either have simple beginnings or complex beginnings. if you start with a belief in god, it's almost impossible to change your mind. if you simply look at the two possibilities (simple vs complex beginnings), and leave all assumptions aside, one seems far more probable.
Quote from: dahangby definition we can either have simple beginnings or complex beginnings. if you start with a belief in god, it's almost impossible to change your mind. if you simply look at the two possibilities (simple vs complex beginnings), and leave all assumptions aside, one seems far more probable.since assumptions are aside, the universe continues expanding, and stays in a pretty shitty state forever. this is the only universe in existance, and that's the way it is. the universe formed by extreme chance, and from something smaller than an atom the universe as we know it formed. i guess you could just say it was an accident.we do have a simple beggining