Ye Religion Thread

[reaper]

I was part of a massive three hour conversation on morality and how it relates to religion a few days ago. This sort of thing came up, where you have implied a sort of raising of consciousness toward other beings and perhaps what they feel. I think a very interesting question is where in the hell did the empathy come from? There was the argument of it arising from our social way of life and the rules for living we developed over time (be nice to one another, altruism, ..). Then there was also the argument of it being biological, and the ability to empathize is simply rooted in a more powerful brain capable of understanding how others feel and not wanting them to experience pain (we flinch when seeing someone get smacked in the face as a consequence of recently discovered mirror neurons). I suppose there has been some studies on this sort of thing (nature/nurture concept once again), but I

[DaHanG]

i think your right. however i don't think evolution, or the idea that the earth would be the same without god (we have morals)is relevent.  relevent in the senses that morals being natural supports an argument against god.  not that you were saying anything about god, but many people do say human morals are a primary reason to believe in god

It may be their reason, but for my standards it

[metaL]

reaper, this is, for the most part a free country. forms of government, however skewed they might be in regard to the general goals of such an establishment, are for now the best possible solution to what would otherwise be complete chaos.  I feel that the US has developed a decent way of establishing order.. of course, it is far from perfect, as you've underscored drastically.. and yet this is a perfect world to you? a tad bit confusing. also, as far as the global warming.. the fact that the government is paying off scientists and urging them to come up with data that renders global warming as propaganda might tell you something (given this doesnt make global warming true/or caused by human causes.. hmm, i wonder why they'd put forth so much money and effort into hiding scientific facts and data from the media, if such phenomena is indeed not true.. and if thats the case.. are all of our scientists that far off? doubt it).

- i only read 3/4 of reapers post and none of hangs, this is getting a little too long for me people challenging each individual sentence one makes with several paragraphs

[reaper]

i will respond later, gathering evidence so the truth of my posts can be shown 

[reaper]

(I assume you absolutely love the ontological argument for god

[DaHanG]

(I assume you absolutely love the ontological argument for god

[metaL]

good lord. i'm a theist and i can't help but cringe at 90% of reaper's reasoning... i dont know how the world is perceived as perfect.  before i claimed the world was "near perfect" in a sense of its ability to sustain life and maintain a very complex and favorable equilibrium amongst the various organisms that exist today.  I used "near perfect" because although the world is far from perfect, i believe this wording explains my beliefs on the odds of the world being created by chance.

Another thing i can't help but mention is that THERE CANNOT BE AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF UNIVERSES.  People need to really quit thinking of infinity as some big number.  Its merely an inquantifiable concept that will never exist in the tangible realm.  With this, i believe that history does not go on to infinity.  How could it? time going on.. forever? no beginning? pretty hard to fathom (impossible  ).  This relates somewhat to the cosmological argument for God's existence, but not exactly.. but i believe at some point there had to have been a beginning.. maybe where something came from nothing.  of course this defies science, which is why i believe some higher power created the "spark" which led to everything we see and know of today.

[DaHanG]

Another thing i can't help but mention is that THERE CANNOT BE AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF UNIVERSES.  People need to really quit thinking of infinity as some big number.  Its merely an inquantifiable concept that will never exist in the tangible realm.

I think the concept of infinite simply references a huge unknown number (5.6 x 10^856 for example).

With this, i believe that history does not go on to infinity.  How could it? time going on.. forever? no beginning? pretty hard to fathom (impossible  ).

Thats where the argument of "god never had a beginning" just doesn't make sense to me. To say matter never had a beginning is not easy for me to accept (even though it cannot be created nor destroyed - and is therefore consistent with the law of conservation), but to elaborate further and say a highly complex all powerful intelligence was simply "always there" just blows me away intellectually.

This relates somewhat to the cosmological argument for God's existence, but not exactly.. but i believe at some point there had to have been a beginning.. maybe where something came from nothing.  of course this defies science, which is why i believe some higher power created the "spark" which led to everything we see and know of today.

Scientists say the universe did have a beginning (13.7-15 billion years ago). Something did not come from nothing, it was a singularity  . A question could be "What caused the singularity?" in which we don't have an answer to (most would like god to solve this problem).

[metaL]

infinity is, and does not, reference to any number. it never has, and never will.

i never said "God never had a beginning" That was probably reaper.. he's really making it easy on you I'm also aware of the law of conservation of matter.  That is what we as humans know is true in our world, what we can understand and conceive.  I believe that this law was broken at least once in the "beginning", where something came from nothing.. BECAUSE there's no way that anything has existed FOREVER, which would mean infinite existence.. something that cannot exist to me.  history represents tangible, real life events.  infinity is abstract and neverending, and a concrete relationship cannot be established between the two.

The estimated creation of the universe is an interesting figure.  However, it does not take into account potential other realms (not that its flawed or anything, just sayin thats basically impossible for us to determine presently).  Can you elaborate on your explanation of a singularity?

EDIT: i fucking spelled infinity incorrectly. lol "ifinity"

[quadz]

infinity is, and does not, reference to any number. it never has, and never will.

Here are a bunch of points that I think are related:

 - So far it has taken advanced mathematics to understand and model how the universe works.

 - Math has a lot to say about infinities.

[metaL]

quadz, none of that is relevant. the half of a half rule does not represent anything. yes, you will never get to the other side. so what? this has never physically been done because it can't. i am talking about comparing the concept of infinity to OUR realm.  the examples you have proposed are elementary at best.  Read my posts again, think a little bit, and respond with something more insightful.

the link you posted does not own infinity. lol.

[quadz]

quadz, none of that means a thing. the half a half rule does not represent anything. yes, you will never get to the other side. so what? this has never physically been done because it can't. i am talking about comparing the concept of infinity to OUR realm.

[metaL]

i changed "didnt mean a thing" to "not relevant" less than 2 minutes after i posted, thinking i went a bit too far. little did i know that several people on this forum check it 30 times per hour.

Now, quadz.. i must say that you still do not understand. your examples of infinity are still intangible concepts (the events which history encompasses, ARE tangible (they did physically take place), unfortunately). thus, they are still irrelevant.  maybe the reason why i repeat the claim is that it seems to take people several reads to contemplate this simple concept.  Physically, infinities DO NOT EXIST.  Think a little bit harder and get back to me.

[jägermonsta]

infinities DO NOT EXIST.

[quadz]

i changed "didnt mean a thing" to "not relevant" less than 2 minutes after i posted, thinking i went a bit too far. little did i know that several people on this forum check it 30 times per hour.

I use a link that shows me ALL recent forum posts on every board and topic.