Ye Religion Thread

[Robot]

And I will continue to say that is meaningless and nonsense.  Please let us know what mutation and random is supposed to mean.

[quadz]

And I will continue to say that is meaningless and nonsense.

[Robot]

This seems like a semantic game now, for which I don't want to participate in.  You not defining words and then claiming this does that with those words not defined means game over.

[quadz]

This seems like a semantic game now, for which I don't want to participate in.

[Robot]

So then my question is, what is "natural selection"?  Here, it seems you are implying natural selection is a programmed system for changing cells and whole systems in a beneficial way.

To me, none of those things such as chemical exposure, radiation, viruses, etc. would be random encounters, but intentional encounters.  Do you commonly expose yourself to dense mercury vapors or deadly radiation in the hope of "random mutations"?  Of course not, because you're programmed not to do that.

[quadz]

So then my question is, what is "natural selection"?

[haunted]

Addressing the comment about 'non-believers pushing their belief on others'. Sorry, but that's EXACTLY WHAT ALMOST ALL RELIGIONS DO. Judaism is the only religion that puts zero emphasis on converting others to their own beliefs. Just letting you know, (whoever said that, i'm drunk and saw that post somewhere).

[Robot]

No, you have implied this, and wikipedia agrees that it is different from what you were implying.

Wikipedia definition: Natural selection is the process by which favorable traits that are heritable become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable traits that are heritable become less common.

This has nothing to do with what governs mutations.  What do you expect me to assume when you say "What I was saying was, the genetic mutation is random, but the *overarching process* of natural selection (of which genetic mutation is just a part) is not random."

[quadz]

No, you have implied this, and wikipedia agrees that it is different from what you were implying.

Wikipedia definition: Natural selection is the process by which favorable traits that are heritable become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable traits that are heritable become less common.

This has nothing to do with what governs mutations.

[quadz]

This has nothing to do with what governs mutations.

Hmm, on re-reading your post, it seems you thought I was suggesting natural selection governs mutations?

No, I'm saying random mutations are but a part of the overall natural selection process.

Remember my poker analogy, the genetic mutations were just the dice roll.  A part of the overall game.


Regards,

quadz

[Robot]

How do you know a dice roll is purely random?  It's also like claiming some shot in q2 is spam, when in reality, it isn't, it's *intended*.  Just because you don't know how something happens doesn't mean it's pure magic.

And let me ask another question, assuming you're right that "random mutations" do happen in the way you'd describe, how do you know the entire evolutionary process is governed by "random mutations"?  It wouldn't seem so when you hear of bacteria having mechanisms for creating resistance to antibiotics.  It would seem like this type of thing is the major evolutionary force.

[quadz]

How do you know a dice roll is purely random?

[DaHanG]

you don't have enough information to say there should be no god, at least that's my opinion. 

In general, what could be enough information? Isn't the fact that there's not a shred of evidence for god the desired way of not believing (until evidence arrives)?

And robot study evolution by natural selection 

[reaper]

you don't have enough information to say there should be no god, at least that's my opinion. 

In general, what could be enough information? Isn't the fact that there's not a shred of evidence for god the desired way of not believing (until evidence arrives)?

when science has a better explanation other than, "we are here by accident, but we do know it looks like an impossible stretch for form a universe that could have life like this - unless there is x,y, or z which we know nothing about".  then you need to know why the universe is there (maybe it just is, whatever is fine), and how it came about.  until things change, the leg you stand on isn't as strong as you make it out to be.  I understand believers of god cannot say, look at this, look at all my evidence on this sheet of paper,  but the other side is lacking similar evidence as well.

quadz,
when there's a lot you don't know, how can you say for sure there is life on other planets?
have you seen the life? have you heard it?  you dont' know a lot, you haven't even been to another solar system, yet alone stepped foot on another planets.  i'm not saying I don't think there's life on other planets, because I do, but there are other possibilities.

[jägermonsta]

Wow...

the leg you stand on isn't as strong as you make it out to be.

Well at least it's a real leg?

I understand believers of god cannot say, look at this, look at all my evidence on this sheet of paper,  but the other side is lacking similar evidence as well.

Believers seem to be lacking ALL evidence? Saying "I know there is a god because I just know." is not evidence. The fact that the opposing side is lacking some evidence to completely piece together the question isn't evidence enough to "believe" in something that has no explanation or physical evidence what so ever. That is a horrible argument and "god people" seem to be just to stubborn to admit it.

quadz,
when there's a lot you don't know, how can you say for sure there is life on other planets?
have you seen the life? have you heard it?  you dont' know a lot, you haven't even been to another solar system, yet alone stepped foot on another planets.  i'm not saying I don't think there's life on other planets, because I do, but there are other possibilities.

Have you seen god? Have you heard him speak to you? You don't know a lot, you haven't even been to heaven.