Author Topic: Ye Religion Thread  (Read 1054523 times)

Offline jägermonsta

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1575 on: October 25, 2007, 01:27:03 PM »
Quote from: reaper's soon to be reply
no. you are wrong.

wow reaper very thought out.

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Offline reaper

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1576 on: October 25, 2007, 01:33:18 PM »
interesting, I didn't explain myself in an imaginary reply.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1577 on: October 25, 2007, 04:58:04 PM »
Quote from: quadz
Has this been proven?
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Offline Whirlingdervish

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1578 on: October 25, 2007, 05:56:05 PM »
Satan is the reason for Hurricanes. They are too huge and complex and destructive to be the result of delicate weather patterns.

that is all.

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Offline reaper

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1579 on: October 25, 2007, 06:17:48 PM »
Quote from: quadz
As I recall, you went with the same "there's not enough information" hedge.

If that's true (meaning, if I've remembered that exchange correctly) then there's little point in talking about what we've learned about how biological life works, if you don't even accept the scientific explanation for thunder being able to stand on its own without god's help.

i don't think we know who or what created life, so it doesn't mean much to me that there are or might be many earth like planets.
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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1580 on: October 25, 2007, 06:31:29 PM »
quadz, if you are the scientist here, can you answer how scientific misconduct happens?  For all you know, it occurs daily, right alongside the media twisting and fabricating stories everyday.  Just the other day, I've seen how the media twisted around my mom's words about a particular homicide story here.  They tried to make it look like our neighbours had moved because of "drug deals happening in the bushes" (which somehow leads to homicides???) outside our apartment instead of just their neighbours being loud.

Also, I'm not that impressed with people claiming the universe is here or the universe is the way it is because of "random" "chaotic" behavior occuring.  That to me is very unsettling.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1581 on: October 25, 2007, 08:23:14 PM »
quadz, if you are the scientist here, can you answer how scientific misconduct happens?
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Offline quadz

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1582 on: October 25, 2007, 08:47:38 PM »
Quote from: quadz
As I recall, you went with the same "there's not enough information" hedge.

If that's true (meaning, if I've remembered that exchange correctly) then there's little point in talking about what we've learned about how biological life works, if you don't even accept the scientific explanation for thunder being able to stand on its own without god's help.

i don't think we know who or what created life, so it doesn't mean much to me that there are or might be many earth like planets.
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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1583 on: October 25, 2007, 08:53:07 PM »
Based on my experience, I think the idea that God plays active roles in the functioning of the universe is a controversial hypothesis.  I believe the universe is a bunch of self-sustaining systems designed by a God.  I have a very hard time trying to envision that every living system from humans to trees to bacteria are all the result of "random modeling" I suppose you could say.  It seems to me randomness is nothing more than "I don't know how it works because I haven't yet worked that out".
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Offline Whirlingdervish

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1584 on: October 25, 2007, 09:00:14 PM »
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Offline reaper

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1585 on: October 25, 2007, 09:14:40 PM »
Quote from: quadz
No matter how much we've discovered about the biological and chemical engines of life, you seem to want to disregard the details and fall back on variations of your, "it would be incomprehensible" routine.

if you made a case for life being on other planets, i'd agree with you.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1586 on: October 25, 2007, 10:02:32 PM »
I have a very hard time trying to envision that every living system from humans to trees to bacteria are all the result of "random modeling" I suppose you could say.

The fossil record mapping the evolution of species is fairly extensive.

And it's a misconception that evolution is a random process.  The mutation is random, but the process of natural selection is not random at all.  It may not be a very efficient process; but it's definitely not random.

(Some reasoning about Evolution as an Intelligent Process, in the context of the quest for computer AI:
http://www.beachbrowser.com/Archives/Science-and-Health/June-99/the-age-of-intelligent-machines-part-2.htm )

Note, also, that we understand genetic mutation well enough now to actually write DNA programs--using real DNA, not simulated--that execute in cups of coffee and solve nondeterministic polynomial problems by massively parallel replication and mutation.  The DNA can be programmed so that only the mutations that solve the problem survive.

  --> this isn't the exact article I was looking for, but close enough:
        http://www.columbia.edu/cu/21stC/issue-1.3/dna-soup.html

Regards,

quadz
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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1587 on: October 25, 2007, 10:16:31 PM »
I'm sorry, but that did not make sense to me, natural selection is not a "random process", but the change in genetic code being controlled by a process seeking an intelligent change isn't? ...
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Offline quadz

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1588 on: October 25, 2007, 10:17:04 PM »
if you made a case for life being on other planets, i'd agree with you.

Given what we've observed so far, I think the onus should be on someone to make a case against life being on other planets at this point, because the case for it seems rather overwhelming.

For example: The more we look on our own planet, the more we find forms of life that can thrive in incredible, extreme conditions.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Ye Religion Thread
« Reply #1589 on: October 25, 2007, 10:25:01 PM »
I'm sorry, but that did not make sense to me, natural selection is not a "random process", but the change in genetic code being controlled by a process seeking an intelligent change isn't? ...

I'm not sure I understand the question.

What I was saying was, the genetic mutation is random, but the overarching process of natural selection (of which genetic mutation is just a part) is not random.


Regards,

quadz

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