Ye Religion Thread

[Whirlingdervish]

As you stated, the authors are obviously religious.

[quadz]

All I'm saying is that it seems unbelievably boneheaded to postulate the necessity for such an uber-complex being to exist, to SOLVE a COMPLEXITY problem.

As you stated, the authors are obviously religious.

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

3. If I have a theory that seems too complex, it is OK to solve it by inventing a meta-solution that is millions or billions of times as complex as the original problem.


Because I am saying #3 is what is being done, by invoking God to solve the complexity objection for the universal constants.

[quadz]

the bible was written by many many individuals over the coarse of many years, from many different parts of the middle east, but yet they all tell of they're personal contact with God in the exact same way.

I'm a little rusty, but I was awfully familiar with the bible growing up.  If there's one thing I don't think I would have ever accused the bible of, it would be an overwhelming sense of consistency.

I seem to recall God appearing in various ways, so I'm not sure what you mean by "exact same way."  Didn't god range from a burning bush and a booming voice to appearing in peoples dreams (jacob?) to being a "still small voice" to speaking inside people's minds in response to prayer, etc.?

Now this is just one small reason for the belief in the fact that the bible is in fact a factual testomony.
So if the bible is factual, then it's obvious to us the God's record of creation must also be factual.

I always thought the first two chapters of Genesis represented separate and conflicting creation stories.  One has man formed in the image and likeness of God; the other has man formed from the dust of the ground.

And what happens when the fossil record, for example, gives direct evidence that conflicts with bible acocunts?

( More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_history )


Regards,

quadz

[reaper]

Can you tell us WHY you don't find it to be strange that at one point, some supernatural force would blink into existence from nothing and then be capable of coherent thought that surpasses that of every great human mind ever, in order to impose some relatively arbitrary values upon a universe that this being does not inhabit and which it can alter without leaving any trace?

I have no idea if god was always around, how god works, what god does, and the same goes for our universe, we don't have a clue what it is, how it came about, etc.

[metaL]

What about the idea of the universe having always existed?  Does that have no validity?

this involves one of my strongest opinions on this subject, which i have stated previously.  I feel that this is impossble (that is, saying that time goes on backwards to infinity).  Time is a measurable entity in the real world, where real life events take place.  Infinity, on the other hand, is an immeasurable, non-numerical value that simply cannot be used for any kind of quantification.  It is a concept and nothing more, and a correlation (that actually holds water) between these two just does not make sense to me (ie infinity cannot exist in the physical realm - measurable events cannot go back in time infinitely).

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

Indeed. It's hard to know how to respond because in essence, I would LOVE to have better pro-religion arguments on this thread; but I would also love to try to tear them apart.

Personally, I think it should be OK to try to deconstruct anyone's argument and try to point out where it fails in terms of logic or reasoning. But that can all be done without being rude.

Yes, I highly agree. It can be done.

If we could eliminate the sarcasm and ridicule, I wonder if the result would be any different.

 


Sorry Could Not Resist,

quadz

I really dought it quadz. The Christians of today all seem to hide rather that confront.

Actually I posted that video because I thought it was funny. Thanks for assuming I posted it to "ridicule"..assuming would be the religious thing to do :>

Case in Point. Also, u might have not meant harm, but, the video was obviously made to ridicule, so by posting it for humor puts you in the same light.

[quote author=j

[quadz]

3. If I have a theory that seems too complex, it is OK to solve it by inventing a meta-solution that is millions or billions of times as complex as the original problem.

People believed in god, well before we knew about the constants of the universe.

Yes, but people also believed the sun revolved around the earth.

[Robot]

What about the idea of the universe having always existed?  Does that have no validity?

this involves one of my strongest opinions on this subject, which i have stated previously.  I feel that this is impossble (that is, saying that time goes on backwards to infinity).  Time is a measurable entity in the real world, where real life events take place.  Infinity, on the other hand, is an immeasurable, non-numerical value that simply cannot be used for any kind of quantification.  It is a concept and nothing more, and a correlation (that actually holds water) between these two just does not make sense to me (ie infinity cannot exist in the physical realm - measurable events cannot go back in time infinitely).

This sounds illogical.  Time is recorded in the brain, and the brain has its limits.  That has no bearing on whether or not the universe has a beginning and an end.  It's like saying the universe cannot possibly have X number of elements, because X is too large for me to comprehend.

[reaper]

(And yet, I somehow doubt I've been able to communicate my point, even yet.)

(But I appreciate the ongoing discussion.)

you communicated your points just fine.

[quadz]

you communicated your points just fine.

However, what I do mind is the sort of two-faced sleight of hand that occurs when theists run out to the gaps at the fringe of cosmology and say, OK we can accept this big bang and evolution stuff now, but what about these universal constants?

[Robot]

Even if God exists or not, the point of our lives still remains the same.  Love your neighbour as you love yourself (and actually prove that instead of JUST saying it!) and reproduce.

[Arm0r]

I think a God (im using god because thats the word most recognized when talking about a higher power) does exzist, I don't know if it's the god spoke of in the bible, but never the less I do believe there is something there--I think that is middle ground some people can meet on if you're willing to accept the truths of today and apply it to reasoning--1 big question for everyone.


Couldn't God be the answer to "Why" and not the answer to "How"?  Because from modern science we are getting more of the "How" than "Why" it seems.

[ReCycled]

I think a God (im using god because thats the word most recognized when talking about a higher power) does exist, I don't know if it's the god spoke of in the bible, but never the less I do believe there is something there--I think that is middle ground some people can meet on if you're willing to accept the truths of today and apply it to reasoning--1 big question for everyone.


Couldn't God be the answer to "Why" and not the answer to "How"?

[Whirlingdervish]

I prefer to think of everything that I see in the world and the universe as Nature - a much more diffuse and vast interaction of everything that exists down to the last molecule. I don't need to simplify and embody that into a person.