explain how you know this. just because there are complex scientific findings on physics does not mean the supernatural exists. ever heard of quantum theory?
this is something i have a real problem with. if you really look closely, this is nothing more than scare tactics. you honestly think God is not sophisticated enough to judge his creation on actions moreso than beliefs? life is not a 'contest' to see who got it right in the afterlife. anyways, what if you're wrong about the great JuJu at the bottom of the sea? we could all be wrong. and those who have thought it out and lack belief cannot 'fake' their belief to an all knowing god. isn't it possible that atheists get bonus points in heaven for being so courageously skeptical?
Quote from: DaHanG on December 07, 2006, 10:10:13 PMthis is something i have a real problem with. if you really look closely, this is nothing more than scare tactics. you honestly think God is not sophisticated enough to judge his creation on actions moreso than beliefs? life is not a 'contest' to see who got it right in the afterlife. anyways, what if you're wrong about the great JuJu at the bottom of the sea? we could all be wrong. and those who have thought it out and lack belief cannot 'fake' their belief to an all knowing god. isn't it possible that atheists get bonus points in heaven for being so courageously skeptical?After two tours of combat, a purple heart and a year in a bamboo cage tends to incline me to believe he's not in the habit of making decisions based on the fear of "what might happen".
I"m not sure what this obsession with evidence is
you're comparing war to an eternity in hell, that's something i would never do.
based on what else you wrote you appear to be saying it's possible to be an atheist and get into heaven.
my assumption is that most christians disagree with this.
i don't really have a problem with being dead. it didn't bother me for billions of years before 1988.
but during this life, the ignorance parading in religion does need to be addressed.
How do you know you didn't have a problem with it? The whole concept of a "pre-life" (which would be necessary to have died) opens up the necessity of an "after-life" of some sort.
Quote from: DaHanG on December 07, 2006, 11:37:29 PMbased on what else you wrote you appear to be saying it's possible to be an atheist and get into heaven.Sorry if I seemed to indicate that. All "religious" arguments aside, I will refer to my friend Judge Scott. He lays down rules and regs for his courtroom. You follow those rules and regs or you face sanctions - including the possiblity of imprisonment for whatever length of time he deems appropriate. Now, thing is, he really doesn't care whether you accept that or not, believe it or not, transgress in his court and you will reap the benefit of the transgression. So, using this logic as an example, and predicating for the sake of the argument there IS a God who is, as you stated, sophisticated enough to judge us by our actions, I would say the same would apply to atheists. Not believing in the existence, authority or rules of the presiding judge can be a very very uncomfortable occasion.
Quote from: DaHanG on December 07, 2006, 11:37:29 PMyou're comparing war to an eternity in hell, that's something i would never do.To clarify, the comparison addressed your comment "if you really look closely, this is nothing more than scare tactics". When you have been through it, completely at the mercy of others whim's and fancies, no "reasonable" expectation for anything to change other than perhaps this'll be the day you die, you learn NOT to fear what might or might not happen. When my friend made the decision, it had nothing to do with scare tactics (fear of disobedience bringing an eternity in hell), having learned in whatsoever state he was in to be content.
there's no reason for me to respond since the previous two posts POUNDED logic into QD
if your friend truly believed that hell was a reasonable concept, but he did not fear it, then in my opinion he is insane or simply emotionless
Hell is SO unlikely that it MUST be very extreme indeed, otherwise the deterrence effect of obedience would not be there.
is it the scariest outcome of suffering for bad things someone did during their life? you bet it is. i don't care what your personal view of hell is, but that is the mainstream concept i have come to understand - and that's how i see it.
Quote from: DaHanG on December 08, 2006, 04:02:24 PMHell is SO unlikely that it MUST be very extreme indeed, otherwise the deterrence effect of obedience would not be there.Unlikely or not it is very extreme indeed. Yet, contrary to how most teachers of christianity who teach on hell, using the original texts I cannot find where Hell was created for man.
The greatest challenge I have faced as a pastor in the last 30 years is trying to get people to not allow all the baggage, preconceptions, misconceptions and prejudices we bring to the table keep us from objectively considering that just because man has screwed up religion (fear, compulsion,etc) doesn't in any way invalidate the need for or the truth of compassionate, loving religion. Just to discount it all, throw it all away, or as my granny used to say "throw the baby out with the bathwater" because of the abuses of those who decided to take advantage of people seems such a waste IMHO. Why do I keep on? I keep on because I believe in people. I believe that most people, with few exceptions, want to be loved, to love and live a peaceable life and the only lasting way to achieve this is through an inward - not outward - change.
it's better to be moral because it's the right thing