Ye Religion Thread

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

You know I

[quadz]

I am saying the Big Bang had to have an intelligent design behind it in order for it to produce our galaxy.

  Creationism: The belief that God is too stupid to be able
  to invent a Universe where life can spontaneously arise.  --Phlip


In other words, you seem to be saying it would be impossible for God to create a Universe where what we currently see around us evolved by chance.  That seems silly.  If God is all-powerful, God could be running an infinite number of Universe experiments, in parallel, or even serially.  We could just happen to be in one of the experiments that turned out like it did.  By chance.  A million, billion, trillion other ones may have turned out differently.  It doesn't mean God had to "design" any of them.  Maybe it's more "fun" for God to watch a million, billion universes unfold by chance, rather than "design" a universe to unfold in some predictable way.


 

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

I am saying the Big Bang had to have an intelligent design behind it in order for it to produce our galaxy.

 Creationism: The belief that God is too stupid to be able
 to invent a Universe where life can spontaneously arise. --Phlip


In other words, you seem to be saying it would be impossible for God to create a Universe where what we currently see around us evolved by chance. That seems silly. If God is all-powerful, God could be running an infinite number of Universe experiments, in parallel, or even serially. We could just happen to be in one of the experiments that turned out like it did. By chance. A million, billion, trillion other ones may have turned out differently. It doesn't mean God had to "design" any of them. Maybe it's more "fun" for God to watch a million, billion universes unfold by chance, rather than "design" a universe to unfold in some predictable way.


 

No, i'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that "this" world, "this" Universe was perfectly designed by him for us.

[quadz]

No, i'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that "this" world, "this" Universe was perfectly designed by him for us.

Why?  What's so special about this Universe that it would have required God to design it specially?

How is that any different from saying God is incapable of having allowed this Universe to unfold purely by chance?

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

No, i'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that "this" world, "this" Universe was perfectly designed by him for us.

Why? What's so special about this Universe that it would have required God to design it specially?

How is that any different from saying God is incapable of having allowed this Universe to unfold purely by chance?

Because being incapable of something  and choosing not to do something are two different things.
God chose to design it like he did for us using the Big Bang method. Then he gave it to us to use.
Would you throw a stick of dynomite in a pile of lumber and nails and tell your kid that when it explodes what you get is what you get ???
I don't think so. You would make sure they have a nice place to live.
Just like he made sure his children has a nice place to live. God loves us, he wasn't going to role the dice and say there you go.

[cyberneticimplant]

Put a stick of Dynamite in the middle of the street. Pile on top of it metal, screws, glass, plastic, bolts, nuts, rubber, and anything else you think should be on it. Light the fuse and let it explode. Do you have a brand new shiny car ? Hell no !!! You've got a really large pile of junk that's just been scattered everywhere by the explosion. You have to have an intelligent being design and build the car (that would be us). Same with the Big Bang.

The big bang wasn't an explosion of matter. Matter, space, and time were created in it. There was no "before" the big bang because time did not exist "before" it. Also, in a way we do have a pile of junk scattered everywhere because the entropy of the universe has increased since the big bang. Every second the universe is becoming more disordered. You're looking at the small picture because you think humanity is the center of the universe.

What about the Human Body? A well oiled, highly technical, perfect operating machine that no one has been able to fully figure out yet. Yup, just another roll of the ole dice during the Big Bang.

Also, the human body evolved over billions of years, not overnight. Also, it was many rolls of dice. Each atom is governed by chance and probability.

When winter comes, all the trees pull there sap down to the roots so it won

[Whirlingdervish]

if we could go a step farther into absurdity, we could surmise that maybe god didn't create anything, and instead he found our universe floating in the void, and decided to sit back for a second of his time and watch it's glory unfold...
Even if a god does exist, there is nothing other than the writings of ancient and uneducated (by modern standards) humans that says he must be a creator of universes as well.

In this multiverse of truly infinite proportions, there could be an untold number of exact copies of our universe floating mere millionths of a teency bit offset from our own and they could be passing right through you this second!

or our entire observable universe could also be a subatomic particle of one atom that makes up a tiny part of a bit of dust in god's eye, soon to be brushed away...
Likewise, if god does not have our perception of time, who's to say that his minutes are longer than ours?
they could just as easily be infinitely shorter!
 


none of this is disproven as of yet.

[quadz]

Because being incapable of something

[reaper]

god of man exists, and he  created earth : )

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

This is a fallacy. God cannot love everyone and send people to hell at the same time. Also, if he loved us he wouldn't let us suffer.

First of all, God doesn't send anyone to Hell. People choose it, weather knowingly or not. But all will have one last chance to avoid it after the 2nd coming.

Secondly, I will gladly suffer, it makes me a stonger person. What doesn't kill me makes me stronger. Also, suffering on earth is a result of Satin, he want people to say what you just said. He likes it.
Not only that, ask anyone that is a "true" believer how much they suffered before coming to God.

[Whirlingdervish]

quadz,
you've definitely taken the conversation in a direction I can follow..

I believe this short question should sum it up better than anything else I can think of at the moment:

q: Who could believe that an all-powerful, all-knowing, infinitely incredible god would want to have 6 billion 1-sided personal relationships with a bunch of supremely dumb, physically useless monkeys from a backwater speck of dust in a universe that is infinitely small to him?

a: mostly people who never thought of it like this...

[reaper]

man, i still don't understand how you guys can think it's crazy to believre in god

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

man, i still don't understand how you guys can think it's crazy to believre in god

I hear ya. But that really doesn't bother me near as much as the peole that "DO" believe in God, but choose not to folow him or accept him.
Those are the folks I pray for.

[Whirlingdervish]

I never said it was crazy to believe in a god. I implied that the imaginary relationships between humans and a god who possibly does or doesn't exist are a crazy thing to stake your life on and nothing more than the musings of humans who have proven for millenia that they think they are much more important than they really are in the face of the staggeringly large universe that surrounds us.

 

[quadz]

nothing more than the musings of humans who have proven for millenia that they think they are much more important than they really are in the face of the staggeringly large universe that surrounds us.

Regards,