Ye Religion Thread

[reaper]

reaper: It's clear that you believe in God, but the rest of it was a mistery.

i never said i believed in god, i said i'd put money on there being a god
even though i think believing in the bible borderlines on insanity, if god talked to man it becomes less preposterous

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

i am just curious, why must satan be directly responsible for man's greed? why can't people just be bad or greedy without a fictional character thousands of years old influencing them? the way i see it, you either have good reasons to have certain beliefs, or you don't.

Well, for you it doesn't. For me it does. I can't speak for other people.
I could tell you why "I" believe that. I could tell you why I know that. And I could tell you why I feel that.
But that would take several more pages. But in a nut shell, it comes from several reasons/sources. Studying the Bible, studying other sources, studying other Relegions, family teachings, Religious friends, Religious enfluence, but more than anything else, LIFE EXPERIENCES. Everything i've looked at, studies and/or experienced has shown me that both God AND Satan do exists.

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

man, i still don't understand how you guys can think it's crazy to believre in god

Hmm, Ok so was this a mistype ????

[reaper]

man, i still don't understand how you guys can think it's crazy to believre in god

Hmm, Ok so was this a mistype ????

i also make a big distinction, in believing god, and believing in the bible.  although i don't think it's as preposterous as dahang's movie claimed the bible to be, because what if man did speak to god.  i don't believe it, but it makes the bible more probable to be true

i stand by what i said, i think it's insane to believe what the bible says

when science, goes , we observed all this, there is evolution.  i think that's highley likley, because there is an enormous amount of evidence.  nevertheless believing in the accepted popular science now, has never been a problem with me, because it doesn't say there is no higher power

[DaHanG]

But in a nut shell, it comes from several reasons/sources. Studying the Bible, studying other sources, studying other Relegions, family teachings, Religious friends, Religious enfluence, but more than anything else, LIFE EXPERIENCES. Everything i've looked at, studies and/or experienced has shown me that both God AND Satan do exists.

hmm, pretty much what i expected. i was hoping to have some more specific reasoning on why you think satan intrudes peoples souls (or however it works) and makes them bad. why did god "choose" to give you these unique revelations that cannot be shared based on reason? why do the majority of the people lack them? are you more 'special' than all buddhists? one thing to consider is that only 33% (maybe 38% depending on source) of the world is christian. if christianity (which preaches god is perfect - all knowing, all powerful, omnibenevolent) is the one true religion, why are these believers (out of 20+ religions with over 100,000 followers) a minority compared to the rest of the world? perhaps various cultures simply invented their own religions for morality and to explain nature. that's my bet. i'm curious, tell me what you think of this deathstalker:

http://www.filecabi.net/video/atheist-delusion.html

[Ben]

i am just curious, why must satan be directly responsible for man's greed? why can't people just be bad or greedy without a fictional character thousands of years old influencing them? the way i see it, you either have good reasons to have certain beliefs, or you don't.

Well, for you it doesn't. For me it does. I can't speak for other people.
I could tell you why "I" believe that. I could tell you why I know that. And I could tell you why I feel that.
But that would take several more pages. But in a nut shell, it comes from several reasons/sources. Studying the Bible, studying other sources, studying other Relegions, family teachings, Religious friends, Religious enfluence, but more than anything else, LIFE EXPERIENCES. Everything i've looked at, studies and/or experienced has shown me that both God AND Satan do exists.

Is it that hard to believe that men (as a generalisation of human) can have negative traits that are their own and have nothing to do with an external influence (Satan as you claim)? I think the way people are brought have a more important influence on the development of people and how they act later in life then any negative supernatural influence...

[DaHanG]

man, i still don't understand how you guys can think it's crazy to believre in god

i wouldn't say believing in the possibility of god is crazy. the biggest problem is explaining how god came into existence, which is much harder to do than explain that matter/energy always existed. like i said, you either have good reasons to believe what you do, or you don't. there is absolutely NO evidence that god is obsessed with sin, is willing to commit genocide on certain people, made muhammad ascend to heaven on a winged horse, provided mary with a virgin birth, etc.

the fact is, people WANT to believe, regardless of how silly it rationally seems. that's all it takes - faith - belief without evidence. if you have it, it can work for you, no matter how invalid your beliefs are.

[reaper]

regardless of how silly it rationally seems.

i see no reason it would seem irrational to not find a higher power probable

you can say,
well we have morals, because of our society, and how were wired after we evolved
or you can say, a higher power made us that way
you can say,
there is a one billion chance for life to spawn on each planet, and it's just chance we are on one of those planets
or you could say, this is the perfect world out of all worlds, and it's because god is part of human life
you could make a never ending list like this, but to say it's irrational to side both ways or one way on these points seems silly to me

and god fits in with science now, and if it ever doesn't, it doesn't matter, because god could be all powerfull anyways

[DaHanG]

regardless of how silly it rationally seems.

i see no reason it would seem irrational to not find a higher power probable

you can say,
well we have morals, because of our society, and how were wired after we evolved
or you can say, a higher power made us that way
you can say,
there is a one billion chance for life to spawn on each planet, and it's just chance we are on one of those planets
or you could say, this is the perfect world out of all worlds, and it's because god is part of human life
you could make a never ending list like this, but to say it's irrational to side both ways or one way on these points seems silly to me

and god fits in with science now, and if it ever doesn't, it doesn't matter, because god could be all powerfull anyways

i was saying there is absolutely NO evidence that god is obsessed with sin, is willing to commit genocide on certain people, made muhammad ascend to heaven on a winged horse, provided mary with a virgin birth, etc. THAT is irrational.

[haunted]

The bible cannot be used for evidence to prove anything in an debate. The bible is nothing more than an incredibly violent love story, but at the same time with how you interpret it, it presents a set of guidelines for one to be happy. Oh, and Jesus taught the old testament all of his life, so fuck the whole new vs old testament bullshit as well. Haunted is not taking sides. Haunted is simply pointing out a few things.

[Whirlingdervish]

now here's a few more interesting questions regarding jesus and his wholy Jewish origins...

How could a jewish carpenter learn to read in a time when only the most wealthy and powerful had access to schooling?

When would he have found time to read the Tanakh (the jewish bible composed of the Torah, the Nebiim, and the Ketubim) enough to memorize it word for word, better than the jewish scholars of the day?

Why do people assume that anything in the Torah (the first 5 books of the bible) is literally the exact same as it was when it was composed?
(it wasn't in written form until a long time after the jews escaped from egypt, and it was passed as an oral tradition...)

 

[QuakeDuke]

This is a fallacy. God cannot love everyone and send people to hell at the same time.

I'm really enjoying the various viewpoints and opionions - you all know what I think about everyone having their own opinions - http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=4240.msg54387#msg54387
If it's permissible, I would like to ask a question here though. Where does the idea God sends people to hell come from? I can't seem to find it anywhere...

QD

[cyberneticimplant]

c1rcu1try: All I can say is WOW. You'e got some real issues with the Lord there.
But I cannot argue or debate any of that with you. Because I feel you've takin ceartain parts out of a "modern" translated bible and severly twisted them into your own beliefs. Either that or you just simply copied and pasted something from a relegious hate thread.

You're an idiot. You even spell Satan wrong.

I took them from an anti-religion web site. So what? You can look up the passages in your own Bible to see that they are legitimate. I don't know how the hell you can twist the meaning those phrases in the Bible. Murder is murder. I don't know how the hell you interpret it. You take Genesis literary and think god made man in a day, yet you don't take the murders seriously. Wait, you think suffering is good because it builds up character, and god makes us suffer because he loves us so much. Wow, that makes perfect sense, I'm gonna kill a member of my family to prove to them how much I love them.

To everyone else, save your breath. It is not worth discussing religion with DeathStalker because he clearly demonstrated he is incapable of rational though.

[QuakeDuke]

q: Who could believe that an all-powerful, all-knowing, infinitely incredible god would want to have 6 billion 1-sided personal relationships with a bunch of supremely dumb, physically useless monkeys from a backwater speck of dust in a universe that is infinitely small to him?
a: mostly people who never thought of it like this...

Why do you say the realtionships are one sided?
I suspect if we could completely  know / knew how God thought / thinks we wouldn't be enjoying the current diversity of dialog.

QD

[QuakeDuke]

II implied that the imaginary relationships between humans and a god who possibly does or doesn't exist

But how can we truly know the relationship between someone and God is imaginary?

humans who have proven for millenia that they think they are much more important than they really are in the face of the staggeringly large universe that surrounds us.

This is definately NOT unique to religious people. It seems to be another one of those things common to humanity.

QD