Ye Religion Thread

[Whirlingdervish]

I saw one where he convinced a lady that her own car was actually a different color than it really was, and it was right in front of her..

 

[[BTF]Defiant!]

Regarding the "NLP bike gift" video..

It seems it is much more about social pressure than it is about planting the idea.  The victim felt pressure to answer and to continue to support his answer without having much personal stake in it.  The gift was un-earned, presented on-camera, by a celebrity.

Also, given that this is a TV show, written and edited, with the goal of attracting viewers, I'm more skeptical.  Just like the magic tv shows, where they are completely fake with fake participants, so that you as the viewer are duped.

Assuming it is real, it would still be costly to use among friends since you would be expending your reputation among most who would be aware of your intentions.

For me, it highlighted how society encourages "going with the flow" rather than critical independent thought.  Which is why this topic fits this thread so well...

[quadz]

Regarding the "NLP bike gift" video..

It seems it is much more about social pressure than it is about planting the idea.  The victim felt pressure to answer and to continue to support his answer without having much personal stake in it.  The gift was un-earned, presented on-camera, by a celebrity.

Also, given that this is a TV show, written and edited, with the goal of attracting viewers, I'm more skeptical.  Just like the magic tv shows, where they are completely fake with fake participants, so that you as the viewer are duped.

Ahhh... good points.

I've little doubt some of the participants in some of his shows are pre-screened, and without a doubt the show will be edited to achieve the maximally entertaining effect they're looking for.

I've watched about 20 of the darren brown youtube videos now, and they do cover a seemingly fairly broad spectrum, many of them taking the form of debunking or exposing fradulent pseudo-psychic techniques (in an entertaining way, of course.)  In several of them, Brown will admit beforehand: Alright, we're going to be using a combination of the following trickery on these people, ... Then afterward, he'll explain to the participants, hey, this is how we tricked you, so-called mediums use these techniques all the time (only they don't admit it)...

I've also watched a few analyses of his videos, pointing out the techniques he's using.  I'm inclined to believe not all of participants are pre-screened (though I could certainly be wrong.)

Consider the "How to take someones wallet, just by asking" video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZohpDS2aMc

Reportedly the gestalt of the technique being employed there is not unknown in the wild. Quoting [1], "Derren's video above is basically a reenactment of what's known as the Russian Scam or "Gypsy Hypnosis". This kind of shakedown is fairly common on the streets of Russia so you can see that NLP can in fact be used for criminal ends. Don't do this!"

Here's an analisys of the above video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybmOlQRuaYM

Here's some further commentary specifically on the handshake induction technique:

http://www.squidoo.com/handshake-induction

Further, a post from someone who tried to duplicate darren's techniques in the russian scam video and eventually was successful:

http://nlpweekly.com/community/index.php?topic=3852.0

On a related note, there's also this "trains... of thought" video, wherein DB suggests passengers to forget their subway destination:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bkleuxpvxY

I agree with your observation about social pressure... these people on the subway certainly have cameras all pointed at them, etc... But on the other hand I'm inclined to believe these techniques do work on susceptible people.  (Fun that the editors decided to leave in at least one guy who wasn't fooled.)

Looking back at the "NLP bike gift" video, I think the social pressure you mention allows darren brown to get away with such a dramatic handshake induction... at 1:28 he does a more blatant version of the handshake induction than I imagine one could get away with in most typical situations:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befugtgikMg

But, once he's taken advantage of the guy's trance state, I can hear him just planting "bike" suggestions like crazy... then goes on (as in the subway video) to suggest the forgetting of the memory of the guy's original gift.

So, it seems to me, he never takes the guy out of the trance / suggestible state, so he's still like the folks on the subway, unable to quite remember what he originally wanted...

I don't mean to discount the TV production values and social pressure aspects, etc... but I do also tend to think the NLP/hypnosis techniques being employed are also genuine.

There's another video at the dog track (and corresponding analysis) showing variations on the Russian scam technique... where DB was not able to make direct contact (like handshake or shoulder touching), so resorted to different pattern interrupt techniques:

dog track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_-QcW4Q4I

dog track - analysis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdMaZzL_a90


Regards,

quadz

[[BTF]Defiant!]

Interesting thought, Darren only enters social norms' that, wake other responders calm.



(Edit: This was supposed to be a joke "I T, D O E S N ' T  W OR K".

[DaHanG]

... (Fun that the editors decided to leave in at least one guy who wasn't fooled.)

I've seen several clips where things don't go exactly as he planned. One is where he takes people's watches, adjusts a time on it with their consent, puts it back on their wrist face down and tries to convey them the time on the watch through his techniques. One volunteer got it right on the dot at like 12:17 or something, but another was completely off.

Also, one thing to consider about his shows are that they are entertainment. Of course he's going to try to take full advantage of the most susceptible people for his more extravagant displays, but I think for the most part he wants to show how impressive his 'powers' are by allowing volunteers participate in many of his acts instead of ideal subjects.

I've seen some of his series'/specials when I found this link: http://www.rslinksforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19965#55112

Trick or Treat episodes 2/3/5 were very entertaining.

[quadz]

Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse:
http://www.news.com/8301-13772_3-9906870-52.html?tag=nefd.only

[QuakeDuke]

Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse:
http://www.news.com/8301-13772_3-9906870-52.html?tag=nefd.only

Any lawsuits yet?

Found some old b&w pics of me during the '60s the other day. Might be changing my pic before long....

QD

[ReCycled]

Haven't heard from you in a while, QuakeDuke. Nice to see ya again...
 

[QuakeDuke]

Haven't heard from you in a while, QuakeDuke. Nice to see ya again...
 

Danke.  I'm still kickin', just not very high .  Finally gained a couple pounds back (after losing 94) so I'm doing better. I check the forum every once in a while, just don't do much although I'm thinking about trying to play a little Q2 again before long - if I remember how

I'll be around sometime to let everybody frag me...

QW

[{TNP}Dukie]

 although I'm thinking about trying to play a little Q2 again before long - if I remember how

just like riding a bike man, get on it and ride

[|iR|Focalor]

I try to evade religious discussions because it's usually just a question of opinions, and many are not willing to agree to disagree. They just want to continue on and on in a pointless eternal circle of logic versus faith-based ideals, which are just about as compatible as Hank Williams Jr. fans and gay pride parades.

This is for the Xtian dumbass noob by the player name of "rick" on the vanilla server earlier this morning.

Of course, I've heard this hollywood fantasy of Satanic panic that Christian fundamentalists buy into several times before, it's nothing new to me. But when someone wants to spread this around as the unquestionable truth in my presence, I take offense to it.

First, he claimed that one of the basic tenets of Satanism which is written in The Satanic Bible is the phrase "Do what thou wilt", which he interpreted to mean "Do whatever you want". I won't argue exactly what that means. Why? Because it's not IN the Satanic Bible, which you adamantly claimed it was. I challenge ANYONE to locate those exact words in the Satanic Bible. It's not there. It is a phrase written by Alister Crowley, the founder of Thelema, and Thelema IS NOT SATANISM. Alister Crowley was a drug-addled marshmellow head incapable of rational thought processes most of the time. I will not attempt to expound upon the meaning of that phrase, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law".

Second, and in conjunction with the first point he claimed, he claimed that it is a regular practice of Satanism to kill children, and to generally commit ANY unlawful act. Not true. As stated in the 11 Satanic Rules of the Earth, most unlawful acts are clearly NOT in line with basic tenets of Satanism.

Official Church of Satan website- http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Eleven.html

Breaking and Entering? #4. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

Rape? #5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

Theft? #6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

Child molesting and/or sacrificing? #9. Do not harm little children.

Satanic cattle mutilation? Animal sacrifice? Cruelty towards animals? #10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

Being a generally threating and vagrant punk? Harassing people? #11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Rick, I have read your bible. Have you read mine? Apparently you haven't. Don't assume you know a fucking thing about what I do and what I may or may not believe. Fuck you very much, sir.

[DaHanG]

Rick, I have read your bible. Have you read mine? Apparently you haven't. Don't assume you know a fucking thing about what I do and what I may or may not believe. Fuck you very much, sir.

Who's Rick?

 

[|iR|Focalor]

Q:

Who's Rick?

 

A:

This is for the Xtian dumbass noob by the player name of "rick" on the vanilla server earlier this morning.

As far as I know, just your average everyday member of the herd who practices "convenient Christianity" and believes that he knows far more about the Holy Bible than I do simply because he says it's his religion. The type that will profess faith and preach it like a seasoned servant of God when it serves his own purpose of boosting his own self-image. I'm sure Jehovah is impressed when these people can remember his teachings just long enough to gain the authority to tell someone else how worthless they are. In the words of Tony Montana, "You need people like me so you can point your fingers and say, 'There's the bad guy!'"

[[BTF]Defiant!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mIfatdNqBA

[DaHanG]