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like i said before, I started to think the world was perfect(can't get any better)
I find it ridiculous you think matter/energy just exists forever with no need for the supernatural, but opinions are opinions.
Quote from: reaperi thought there's a 51 percent chance god exists : ). i still feel the same.Quote from: dahangSo there's a 49% chance that the world is absolutely perfect as a result of an "accident"?obviously my quote isn't meant to be taken literally; i believe there is a god, i'm fairly confident in this belief. i'm obviously not atheist, but I consider it a possibility god does not exist. as atheist as you say you are, i bet if you killed like Dahlmer you'd fear god. like i said before, I started to think the world was perfect(can't get any better) before this thread, so it's not like I'm trying to rig up some argument. i'm simply saying I think the world is perfect, and overall everything that's been said here has re-enforced my conclusion that there is a god. to each his own, I find it ridiculous you think matter/energy just exists forever with no need for the supernatural, but opinions are opinions.
i thought there's a 51 percent chance god exists : ). i still feel the same.
So there's a 49% chance that the world is absolutely perfect as a result of an "accident"?
Ok, on reaper's description of the world as perfect: the world is not perfect. We all know that, and i really think reaper does too (perfect in a sense that the world "can't get any better"). However, I can see how a theist may struggle in finding a word that is more fit to describe the world we live in today, when taking into account the seemingly Wink infinite (biological, chemical, physical, etc) entities that factor into the creation of our world in all its uniqueness. A number of theists see that the probability of the world being created by accident as incomprehensibly low, and since this world does indeed exist (as for God, the existence of God is not proven; one cannot just say God exists.. one can only provide an argument that supports his or her beliefs), it can be difficult to describe it in brief, while attempting to encompass the vast magnitude of the world's uniqueness.
Even though our planet is pleasant and suitable for life, there are literally trillions of planets in the universe. The planetary anthropic principal devastates this argument in my opinion.
Quote from: dahangEven though our planet is pleasant and suitable for life, there are literally trillions of planets in the universe. The planetary anthropic principal devastates this argument in my opinion.the creation of planets can in theory be traced back to all the matter/energy condensed, it's chance the universe forms the way it does. so a few explanations that explain away chance would be: a multi-verse (a vague concept), or previous big bangs (an idea of similiar standing). if you have previous big bangs, you would think out of all the results, you would have a universe dying of heat death - and existing forever. are we standing on ultrasolid ground here... i don't think so. of course you could just believe in good luck.everything is formed from the big bang, planets included
Ok, on reaper's description of the world as perfect:
Anyone could believe in good luck, and I certainly don't like that idea.
Quote from: metalOk, on reaper's description of the world as perfect: the world is not perfect. We all know that, and i really think reaper does too (perfect in a sense that the world "can't get any better"). However, I can see how a theist may struggle in finding a word that is more fit to describe the world we live in today, when taking into account the seemingly infinite (biological, chemical, physical, etc) entities that factor into the creation of our world in all its uniqueness. A number of theists see the probability of the world being created by accident as incomprehensibly low, and since this world does indeed exist (as for God, the existence of God is not proven; one cannot just say God exists.. one can only provide an argument that supports his or her beliefs), it can be difficult to describe it in brief, while attempting to encompass the vast magnitude of the world's uniqueness.As for the evil and suffering in existence today: I believe that we as humans have free will [i do not believe God (if he exists) is omniscient, as in my opinion, acheiving this is impossible] . I also do not believe that God actively facilitates the many occurences on this planet, making sure that no bad things happen.Quote from: dahangEven though our planet is pleasant and suitable for life, there are literally trillions of planets in the universe. The planetary anthropic principal devastates this argument in my opinion.Quote from: reaperthe creation of planets can in theory be traced back to all the matter/energy condensed, it's chance the universe forms the way it does. so a few explanations that explain away chance would be: a multi-verse (a vague concept), or previous big bangs (an idea of similiar standing). if you have previous big bangs, you would think out of all the results, you would have a universe dying of heat death - and existing forever. are we standing on ultrasolid ground here... i don't think so. of course you could just believe in good luck.everything is formed from the big bang, planets includedQuote from: dahangI'm quite aware of this, but metal was not arguing this. My response was directed at him, not you.Anyone could believe in good luck, and I certainly don't like that idea.i know your response was directed at metal, can i respond with my own thoughts? It's not like metal can't respond if I make a post. I was implying we don't completely know how or why planets are formed, so one should wish to know why and how there are trillions of planets in the first place. the fact that there are trillions of planets, and many should be suitable for life does not in any way change the need for a god. you should still question why there is a universe like this one in the first place.
Ok, on reaper's description of the world as perfect: the world is not perfect. We all know that, and i really think reaper does too (perfect in a sense that the world "can't get any better"). However, I can see how a theist may struggle in finding a word that is more fit to describe the world we live in today, when taking into account the seemingly infinite (biological, chemical, physical, etc) entities that factor into the creation of our world in all its uniqueness. A number of theists see the probability of the world being created by accident as incomprehensibly low, and since this world does indeed exist (as for God, the existence of God is not proven; one cannot just say God exists.. one can only provide an argument that supports his or her beliefs), it can be difficult to describe it in brief, while attempting to encompass the vast magnitude of the world's uniqueness.As for the evil and suffering in existence today: I believe that we as humans have free will [i do not believe God (if he exists) is omniscient, as in my opinion, acheiving this is impossible] . I also do not believe that God actively facilitates the many occurences on this planet, making sure that no bad things happen.Quote from: dahangEven though our planet is pleasant and suitable for life, there are literally trillions of planets in the universe. The planetary anthropic principal devastates this argument in my opinion.Quote from: reaperthe creation of planets can in theory be traced back to all the matter/energy condensed, it's chance the universe forms the way it does. so a few explanations that explain away chance would be: a multi-verse (a vague concept), or previous big bangs (an idea of similiar standing). if you have previous big bangs, you would think out of all the results, you would have a universe dying of heat death - and existing forever. are we standing on ultrasolid ground here... i don't think so. of course you could just believe in good luck.everything is formed from the big bang, planets included
Even though our planet is pleasant and suitable for life, there are literally trillions of planets in the universe. The planetary anthropic principal devastates this argument in my opinion.Quote from: reaperthe creation of planets can in theory be traced back to all the matter/energy condensed, it's chance the universe forms the way it does. so a few explanations that explain away chance would be: a multi-verse (a vague concept), or previous big bangs (an idea of similiar standing). if you have previous big bangs, you would think out of all the results, you would have a universe dying of heat death - and existing forever. are we standing on ultrasolid ground here... i don't think so. of course you could just believe in good luck.everything is formed from the big bang, planets included
the creation of planets can in theory be traced back to all the matter/energy condensed, it's chance the universe forms the way it does. so a few explanations that explain away chance would be: a multi-verse (a vague concept), or previous big bangs (an idea of similiar standing). if you have previous big bangs, you would think out of all the results, you would have a universe dying of heat death - and existing forever. are we standing on ultrasolid ground here... i don't think so. of course you could just believe in good luck.everything is formed from the big bang, planets included
I'm quite aware of this, but metal was not arguing this. My response was directed at him, not you.Anyone could believe in good luck, and I certainly don't like that idea.
Well you said basically the same thing for the 5th time, that's why I wasn't enthusiastic as you brought it up again. If there is no multi-verse, or no multiple big bangs, then yes chance is a problem. We don't really have a clue as to either of these issues, so I find it interesting you actually use it as a strength in your argument. Even if there was one single big bang though, I've only gone as far as saying that the entity creating it as at least as improbable.
i don't think anyone really has a clue, i'll go by what feels natural, and the world does seem perfect.