Ye Religion Thread

[reaper]

i

[quadz]

like i said before, I started to think the world was perfect(can't get any better)

But you said you're aware that there are millions of people right now who are currently horribly suffering.  Some of them, for instance are dying of starvation.  Do you really think the world "can't get any better" for them???  What if we found a way to feed them?

If we found a way to feed them, wouldn't that be making the world better?

I find it ridiculous you think matter/energy just exists forever with no need for the supernatural, but opinions are opinions.

And just why does "the supernatural" get a free pass to having-always-existed-ville?

I know, I know, "it's incomprehensible."  Third base!  This is like a bad abbott and costello sketch.

Why do you think matter/energy existing forever is ridiculous, but give "the supernatural" a free pass?


Regards,

quadz

[DaHanG]

i  thought there's  a 51 percent chance god exists : ). i still feel the same.

So there's a 49% chance that the world is absolutely perfect as a result of an "accident"?

obviously my quote isn't meant to be taken literally; i believe there is a god, i'm fairly confident in this belief.   i'm obviously not atheist, but I consider it a possibility god does not exist.  as atheist as you say you are, i bet if you killed like Dahlmer you'd fear god.  like i said before, I started to think the world was perfect(can't get any better)  before this thread, so it's not like I'm trying to rig up some argument.  i'm simply saying I think the world is perfect, and overall everything that's been said here has re-enforced my conclusion that there is a god.  to each his own, I find it ridiculous you think matter/energy just exists forever with no need for the supernatural, but opinions are opinions.

You simply dodge your silly statements by saying they're not literal.

Again, If you have a hard time with matter/energy existing, a supernatural entity, by definition, demands that it is more complex. I am not alone in thinking that complex entities are more improbable than simple entities. I do not like making chance go into boundaries it does not have to go to.

[metaL]

Ok, on reaper's description of the world as perfect:  the world is not perfect. We all know that, and i really think reaper does too (perfect in a sense that the world "can't get any better").  However, I can see how a theist may struggle in finding a word that is more fit to describe the world we live in today, when taking into account the seemingly  infinite (biological, chemical, physical, etc) entities that factor into the creation of our world in all its uniqueness.  A number of theists see the probability of the world being created by accident as incomprehensibly low, and since this world does indeed exist (as for God, the existence of God is not proven; one cannot just say God exists.. one can only provide an argument that supports his or her beliefs), it can be difficult to describe it in brief, while attempting to encompass the vast magnitude of the world's uniqueness.

As for the evil and suffering in existence today:  I believe that we as humans have free will [i do not believe God (if he exists) is omniscient, as in my opinion, acheiving this is impossible] .  I also do not believe that God actively facilitates the many occurences on this planet, making sure that no bad things happen.

yay for run-on sentences

[DaHanG]

Ok, on reaper's description of the world as perfect:  the world is not perfect. We all know that, and i really think reaper does too (perfect in a sense that the world "can't get any better").  However, I can see how a theist may struggle in finding a word that is more fit to describe the world we live in today, when taking into account the seemingly  Wink infinite (biological, chemical, physical, etc) entities that factor into the creation of our world in all its uniqueness.  A number of theists see that the probability of the world being created by accident as incomprehensibly low, and since this world does indeed exist (as for God, the existence of God is not proven; one cannot just say God exists.. one can only provide an argument that supports his or her beliefs), it can be difficult to describe it in brief, while attempting to encompass the vast magnitude of the world's uniqueness.

Even though our planet is pleasant and suitable for life, there are literally trillions of planets in the universe. The planetary anthropic principal devastates this argument in my opinion.

[reaper]

Even though our planet is pleasant and suitable for life, there are literally trillions of planets in the universe. The planetary anthropic principal devastates this argument in my opinion.

the creation of planets can in theory be traced back to all the matter/energy condensed, it's chance the universe forms the way it does.

[DaHanG]

Even though our planet is pleasant and suitable for life, there are literally trillions of planets in the universe. The planetary anthropic principal devastates this argument in my opinion.

the creation of planets can in theory be traced back to all the matter/energy condensed, it's chance the universe forms the way it does.  so a few explanations that explain away chance would  be:  a multi-verse (a vague concept), or previous big bangs (an idea of similiar standing).  if you have previous big bangs,  you would think out of all the results, you would have a universe dying of heat death - and existing forever.  are we standing on ultrasolid ground here... i don't think so.  of course you could just believe in good luck.

everything is formed from the big bang, planets included

I'm quite aware of this, but metal was not arguing this. My response was directed at him, not you.

Anyone could believe in good luck, and I certainly don't like that idea.

[reaper]

Ok, on reaper's description of the world as perfect:

[jägermonsta]

Anyone could believe in good luck, and I certainly don't like that idea.

You don't believe in good luck? Coming from the guy that is full of luck. 

[metaL]

yeah he's lucky [TC]Gwanny wasnt waiting to play the winner of the purri duel. 

[jägermonsta]

exactly 

 

[DaHanG]

Ok, on reaper's description of the world as perfect:  the world is not perfect. We all know that, and i really think reaper does too (perfect in a sense that the world "can't get any better").  However, I can see how a theist may struggle in finding a word that is more fit to describe the world we live in today, when taking into account the seemingly   infinite (biological, chemical, physical, etc) entities that factor into the creation of our world in all its uniqueness.  A number of theists see the probability of the world being created by accident as incomprehensibly low, and since this world does indeed exist (as for God, the existence of God is not proven; one cannot just say God exists.. one can only provide an argument that supports his or her beliefs), it can be difficult to describe it in brief, while attempting to encompass the vast magnitude of the world's uniqueness.

As for the evil and suffering in existence today:  I believe that we as humans have free will [i do not believe God (if he exists) is omniscient, as in my opinion, acheiving this is impossible] .  I also do not believe that God actively facilitates the many occurences on this planet, making sure that no bad things happen.

Even though our planet is pleasant and suitable for life, there are literally trillions of planets in the universe. The planetary anthropic principal devastates this argument in my opinion.

the creation of planets can in theory be traced back to all the matter/energy condensed, it's chance the universe forms the way it does.  so a few explanations that explain away chance would  be:  a multi-verse (a vague concept), or previous big bangs (an idea of similiar standing).  if you have previous big bangs,  you would think out of all the results, you would have a universe dying of heat death - and existing forever.  are we standing on ultrasolid ground here... i don't think so.  of course you could just believe in good luck.

everything is formed from the big bang, planets included

I'm quite aware of this, but metal was not arguing this. My response was directed at him, not you.

Anyone could believe in good luck, and I certainly don't like that idea.

i know your response was directed at metal, can i respond with my own thoughts? It's not like metal can't respond if I make a post. 

I was implying we don't completely know how or why planets are formed, so one should wish to know why and how there are trillions of planets in the first place.  the fact that there are trillions of planets, and many should be suitable for life does not in any way change the need for a god.  you should still question why there is a universe like this one in the first place.

Well you said basically the same thing for the 5th time, that's why I wasn't enthusiastic as you brought it up again. If there is no multi-verse, or no multiple big bangs, then yes chance is a problem. We don't really have a clue as to either of these issues, so I find it interesting you actually use it as a strength in your argument. Even if there was one single big bang though, I've only gone as far as saying that the entity creating it as at least as improbable.

[reaper]

Well you said basically the same thing for the 5th time, that's why I wasn't enthusiastic as you brought it up again. If there is no multi-verse, or no multiple big bangs, then yes chance is a problem. We don't really have a clue as to either of these issues, so I find it interesting you actually use it as a strength in your argument. Even if there was one single big bang though, I've only gone as far as saying that the entity creating it as at least as improbable.

i don't think anyone really has a clue, i'll go by what feels natural, and the world does seem perfect.  you can't say god is as improbable as rolling the big bang dice, and getting this universe, when you don't know enough information about god, or this universe, especially since much of the desired knowledge is critical

[Whirlingdervish]

you can't truthfully say that you feel the world is perfect unless you are completely devoid of empathy or you live in a cave and you don't know any better.

I doubt both of these conditions are true.

[quadz]

i don't think anyone really has a clue, i'll go by what feels natural, and the world does seem perfect.