Ye Religion Thread

[fdrjk]

um you cant "personally know something to be fact". it either is or it isnt, as in, either youre definitely fucking wrong or you arent, which you definitely are.

[|iR|Focalor]

i cannot prove it

[Whirlingdervish]

This is what happens when you all forget that we were making a point of not responding to this dumb troll and his idiotic claim du jour.

He's presented the exact same type of tubbyesque nonargument techniques that we should be experienced enough to recognize and avoid.


PS: He got raped in the ra2 draft, whereas I am undefeated.

[quadz]

you've only posted 1 critic, and from his biography,  "James Randi has an international reputation as a magician and escape artist". So should i discount everything he says because hes just a magician?

You're mistaken. Two critiques were posted, neither of which was written by James Randi. (But as an aside, James Randi has been known for decades for debunking frauds, charlatans, and crackpots, and for exposing the chicanery behind their various mystic or pseudoscientific claims.)

The first critique I'd posted was written by Bart Farkas who talked about his direct experience working with the HeartMath folks.

The second was written by Scott Alexander who took the time to deconstruct just about every claim HeartMath makes on its website.

Who are Bart Farkas and Scott Alexander? I don't know--but who they are doesn't seem particularly relevant since their critiques didn't take the form of Arguments from Authority.

Again here, should i discount years of research because of a medical device that they are trying to sell? I dont know if you can slander the entirety of their research.

Pointing out obvious flaws and highlighting exaggerated claims is "slander"? Yeah, okay. I think it's fair to let Dick Cheney respond to your stance on that: http://images.cpcache.com/image/8617066.png

take care to prevent yourself from relying to heavily on the scientific method while abandoning inner exploration.

These aren't mutually exclusive, and you've got this the wrong way 'round.

The scientific method is deliberately formulated with safeguards aimed at preventing one from fooling oneself.

And if you haven't taken the time to familiarize yourself with at least some of the basics of a scientific understanding of physics and neurobiology, then how can you possibly avoid talking total shit when you try to translate a subjective conscious experience into physical terms involving biological structures? You'll end up uttering doofy statements like, "my heart physically altered my consciousness for an hour."

It's like Charlie Parker's response when asked about playing music:

1. Master the instrument
2. Master the music
3. Then forget all that shit and play

Problem is--if you're trying to play in a technical genre--when you skip 1 and 2, and jump directly to 3 you sound like an idiot.

[fdrjk]

the human experience is different for everyone anyway, it doesnt matter what the fuck happened to 2dum because no one spiritual experience is the "right" one. inner exploration will NOT result in the same experience for everyone.

using a subjective experience and interpreting it as a universal fact + talking down to people who try to prove you wrong like they don't understand = messianic superiority complex?

[Whirlingdervish]

using a subjective experience and interpreting it as a universal fact + talking down to people who try to prove you wrong like they don't understand = messianic superiority complex?

nope. all that = he's a fucking moron who thinks he isn't a fucking moron, and he's wrong about that too.

[2d]

a fluid secreted from my brain and went directly into my heart, and my heart altered my consciousness for 1 hour. i already said all of you will consider me insane, but it is the truth, the heart has deep and undiscovered power. this was never about winning an argument. this is what happened to me, take what you will from it.

[|iR|Focalor]

i already said all of you will consider me insane,

See, wrong again. No one thinks you're insane, just an idiot.

[The Dreaming Dragon]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/isis-militants-order-female-genital-mutilation-northern-iraq-u-n-article-1.1878745

[|iR|Focalor]

No wonder these people are so angry all the time and always starting some shit. Apparently their women aren't willing to be all that frisky when they rip their fuckin' clits off and remove one of the only reasons women enjoy having sex in the first place. I'd be a shitty bum lay who never gave a shit about sex too if all the women in this country mandated that the head of my cock be cleaved off.

Stupid fuckin' sand chimps.

[quadz]

Apparently their women aren't willing to be all that frisky when they rip their fuckin' clits off and remove one of the only reasons women enjoy having sex in the first place. I'd be a shitty bum lay who never gave a shit about sex too if all the women in this country mandated that the head of my cock be cleaved off.

Indeed. Engineer maximum sexual repression on Earth, while promising the whorehouse to end all whorehouses in Paradise:


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10154255802640012  (video: Pakistani cleric hyping sex in the afterlife)





Edit: Kind of comical at 3:28 the cleric insinuates that Muslim men are all premature ejaculators! (Which of course can only be fixed by Allah after you're dead.)

[The Dreaming Dragon]

http://videosift.com/video/That-Doesnt-Make-Sense

[ex]

time is a dimension within our universe, and like the other dimensions, it has the ability to bend, fold, warp, stretch, conflate, and yes, end.  Time within our universe is not endless.  When this universe ends, time will end with it, because time simply exists as a dimension within our universe.  The same is definitely true for space as well.  Space is a part of this universe, and when the universe experiences Cold Death (a concept hard to argue against because of the general laws of entropy), space will end as well.

I say false. Time as a concept exists EVERYWHERE, whether a human being is nearby to observe it or not. All human life can end, and the concept will remain a concept. There can be no matter, and space as a concept will still remain whether anything is there to observe it or fill it.

I will admit that within the boundaries of a black hole, time and space can have different qualities due to the difference in the scaling of the concepts, but outside of the event horizon, those concepts remain unchanged and unscaled. Outside of the black hole, the black hole itself has finite boundaries and coordinates and age. The only way I see such concepts being subject to change would be if someone hypothesized that the universe we observe itself exists within it's own black hole which is impossible to escape or see out of.

A little late responding to this, but:

Time is a concept for sure.  The idea of whether a concept specifically would continue with or without humans is a concept on its own as well.  It's like the saying "If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, will it make a sound?"  I guess it is up to judgement of whatever beings are around to hear it.  But that wasn't really the angle I was going in with this.  What I meant was that time itself bends and folds just like all the other dimensions do.

I like the fact that you brought up black holes.  What better way to show bends and folds in dimensions than one of those bad boys.  Here's where I'm going with this.  We have sent satellites around the Earth at different speeds, and they had clocks in them which measured time in literally billionths of a second intervals.  What we have found is that the satellites that orbit the earth faster age SLOWER, albeit not very much, than the satellites traveling at slower speeds.  Because of this fact, we know why time would appear to slow down infinitely to an observer of a black hole viewing an object being sent into it.  Things that travel at faster speeds seem to age slower to other objects traveling at slower/static speeds.  That is why I believe time is just another dimension, the 4th dimension if you will, on top of the previous three.  And it is possible that there are more dimensions that we have yet to observe, that bend and fold just like the other four do when sent into a black hole...or even just simply when traveling at faster rates of speed within the regular universe. 

BTW, the ultimate point I was trying to convey is that time, as a concept, only works within this universe.  There may in fact be other universes in which concepts such as time do not exist.  This seems so outlandish to us because of how our universe works, but there may be other universes which are simply not built with time as a dimension within them.  These universes as a result may pop in and out of existence virtually instantaneously as a result...or it could be that it is a truly static envelope, in which time is not free-flowing - this means that matter may be static and unchanging in these other universes as well.

You know that whole Big Bang thing?  Scientists have theorized that one of these other universes, being made of foreign material than our own, could have collided with our universe, which was possibly a static entity beforehand, and the rubbing against one-another is what caused the explosion of matter that formed this universe.  There is also something called the Great Attractor in space, where most matter in the known universe is flowing towards.  It is a dark area with nothing in it (that we know of) and yet it is a gravitational magnet.  It's possible that could have been the original tear on the bubble of the universe 13+ billion years ago, and our universe is emptying out of this tear into some grand arena/field I like to call the "background."

But you're right, all of these are merely concepts/theories; nothing is for sure.  But, conceptually speaking, it does make more sense to try to explain the unknown with out-of-the-box thinking rather than conflating out intellectual abilities into what we think we already know about the universe, and trying to fit all of these types of possibilities into those cookie-cutter molds.  It's intellectually limiting, IMHO.

(BTW, I'm not sure but I think this is a little off topic )

[quadz]

There is also something called the Great Attractor in space, where most matter in the known universe is flowing towards.

http://www.solstation.com/x-objects/greatatt.htm

In late 2005, a team of astronomers engaged in a X-ray survey called the Clusters in the Zone of Avoidance (CIZA) project revealed that the Milky Way is not being drawn towards a concentration of mass called the Great Attractor but to an even more massive region behind it called the Shapley Supercluster, which lies around 500 million light-years away or four times the distance to the Great Attractor. Over the two decades since the discovery of the Great Attractor, subsequent observations at infrared wavelengths indicated that the Milky Way not, in fact, bring drawn towards the Great Attractor. Indeed, the CIZA team reported that the Great Attractor actually has only about a tenth the mass that was originally estimated.

[quadz]

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