Ye Religion Thread

[deft]

I see plenty of progress...

"The American Religious Identification Survey recently found the number of people who claimed "no religion" had nearly doubled nationally over the last 18 years, to 15 percent. They were the only demographic that increased in all 50 states."

The rest of your post is so dumb it's not even worth addressing, this sentence alone is almost too much acknowledgment.

edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ7BOxUan_M - fast forward to 3:15 - funny clip from the new family guy episode.

[reaper]

I see plenty of progress...

"The American Religious Identification Survey recently found the number of people who claimed "no religion" had nearly doubled nationally over the last 18 years, to 15 percent. They were the only demographic that increased in all 50 states."

The rest of your post is so dumb it's not even worth addressing, this sentence alone is almost too much acknowledgment.

Good answer!

"The American.."  right, someone claiming "no religion" on a survey means next to nothing.

[deft]

Simply amazing.

[quadz]

reaper, please tell me you are just trolling at this point.  You've made these same claims previously on this thread, and each time, (a) you fail to provide evidence in support of your claims; and (b) evidence is provided by others which undermines your claims.

Examples:

There may be a lot of atheists on this forum, but this is just a forum.  In the real world I don't see much progress.  In fact, I'd bet most of society (the parts of society doing well), probably thinks your views are crazy.  You can come back with the funny numbers about scientists not believing in god, but clearly "god" isn't going anywhere.   

This claim has already been contradicted by data showing the world's nations having the highest percentage of nonbelievers in their population, also tended to rate most favorably on metrics which included: Political instability; Level of disrespect for human rights; Potential for terrorist acts; Number of homicides per 100,000 people; Level of violent crime; Likelihood of violent demonstrations; Number of jailed population per 100,000 people; etc.

So please stop talking out your ass.  If you are going to keep making the claim above, then please provide evidence to support it.

1)Take a look at WWII, if people were athiest, and weren't serving the lord, we'd be fucked - welcome to reality

This claim has been addressed previously by pointing out several inconvenient facts.  Most nazis were Christian.  Anti-semitism has its roots in Christian dogma.  The Catholic church ordered every priest and bishop in Germany to celebrate Hitler's birthday from the pulpit every year until the end of the regime.  Not to mention the church's cozy association with Fascism and Mussolini.

Again, please stop talking out your ass.  If you are going to keep making the claim above, then please provide evidence to support it.

2) People like Jefferey Dahlmer do exist

And the hundreds of terrorists killing people for religious reasons also exist.  Do you have a special point to make about Dahmer in contrast to the ongoing daily religion-inspired murders in the world?

and look at the prisoners, yeah they're crazy, but take away the 'fear of god' from them and watch what they do

This claim has previously been undermined by pointing you to prison statistics, showing data from a nationwide study of the percentage of nonbelievers in prison, compared to the percentage of nonbelievers in the surrounding population.  The percentage of nonbelievers in prison was consistently vanishingly small compared to the percentage of nonbelievers in the surrounding population.

ONCE AGAIN, please stop talking out your ass.  If you are going to keep making the claim above, then please provide evidence to support it.

p.s,
I could care less if there is a god or not.

You seem to be implying, if there's no god, you still think it's important for the general population to believe in a lie, for the 'sake of society' ?

Please keep in mind you have yet to provide evidence that religious belief is beneficial to society; whereas there is evidence provided above that suggests religiosity may be detrimental to society.


Regards,

quadz

[paradisel0st]

Thank you for taking the time to make the above post Quadz. There was a time I had issues believing reaper was truly that ignorant and unintelligent, his last posts easily show me that he really is just THAT dumb.   

[reaper]

reaper, please tell me you are just trolling at this point. You've made these same claims previously on this thread, and each time, (a) you fail to provide evidence in support of your claims; and (b) evidence is provided by others which undermines your claims.

Negative on that one.

If anything seems trollish then it's because I'm sick of the atheist propaganda.  Just like you won't see mass acceptence of a book like "The GOD delusion", you won't see me accepting these arguments against religion and for atheism.  Someone on this forum can say whatever they want for atheism - that's ok, but when you side with religion and don't care about your claims (with so called evidence, or not) that's not okay?  Sorry, count me out, and count a few billion others out as well..

There may be a lot of atheists on this forum, but this is just a forum. In the real world I don't see much progress. In fact, I'd bet most of society (the parts of society doing well), probably thinks your views are crazy. You can come back with the funny numbers about scientists not believing in god, but clearly "god" isn't going anywhere.

This claim has already been contradicted by data showing the world's nations having the highest percentage of nonbelievers in their population, also tended to rate most favorably on metrics which included: Political instability; Level of disrespect for human rights; Potential for terrorist acts; Number of homicides per 100,000 people; Level of violent crime; Likelihood of violent demonstrations; Number of jailed population per 100,000 people; etc.

So please stop talking out your ass. If you are going to keep making the claim above, then please provide evidence to support it.

I don't care about the survey and its findings..
Why?  Because it has little meaning.  I won't go through the trouble to break all the details down, but clearly in everyday life people fear god, they worship god, and they don't know what's going on.  Why don't we take the so called atheists in Sweeden, and put a gun to their head and ask them if they fear god.  Not literally of course, but I am saying, if god is analogous to the flying spaghetti monster the thought process would be the same if you asked the victim if they feared the flying spaghetti monster, but their throught process wouldn't be the same.
If you asked someone if they feared the flying spaghetti monster, I doubt a rational thought of fear of the flying spaghetti monster would pop in their head.

But  god is self-evident to people, you could say god is intrinstic to people.  This is the fear that keeps prisoners from killing more people, other than rapists,  and child molesters.  Also this fear prevents violent acts from people like Jefferey Dahmer, and causes people to behave in ways that "serve the lord".   Without this motivation to serve the lord, I doubt the allied forces would of had any chance. 

"there are no atheists in foxholes".

Anyways, that's just the argument of saying no one is truly atheist.  The thing is I don't feel like producing more arguments, earlier I just stated my opinion.  And I still do not care what that survey says.

Take a look at WWII, if people were athiest, and weren't serving the lord, we'd be fucked - welcome to reality

This claim has been addressed previously by pointing out several inconvenient facts. Most nazis were Christian. Anti-semitism has its roots in Christian dogma. The Catholic church ordered every priest and bishop in Germany to celebrate Hitler's birthday from the pulpit every year until the end of the regime. Not to mention the church's cozy association with Fascism and Mussolini.

Again, please stop talking out your ass. If you are going to keep making the claim above, then please provide evidence to support it.

Not sure why you are giving the church such a prominent role on the axis side here.  Germany was fucked up, the people had no identity or hope.  Then hitler comes along, and says we are strong, and we’re not like these gypies, blacks, etc.  That seems to be the root of what happened,  I don’t see where the church gets any priority.
While the allies fought relentlessly against his injustice.  And in this fight, you don’t think the thought of “serving the lord” was a factor?  You’ve got to be kidding me.

and look at the prisoners, yeah they're crazy, but take away the 'fear of god' from them and watch what they do

This claim has previously been undermined by pointing you to prison statistics, showing data from a nationwide study of the percentage of nonbelievers in prison, compared to the percentage of nonbelievers in the surrounding population. The percentage of nonbelievers in prison was consistently vanishingly small compared to the percentage of nonbelievers in the surrounding population.

ONCE AGAIN, please stop talking out your ass. If you are going to keep making the claim above, then please provide evidence to support it.

Okay well you take away any fear of consequence those prisoners have and let them loose in society.  That’s right, they’d be even crazier if they didn’t believe.  They also didn’t go to prison because they went to church here and there, they went there because they had no hope, were poor, and had addictions.  Maybe some chemical imbalances, or abnormal behavior factors in there too, but the root of the problem is the lack of a future, and good present.  In any event, that study misses the point.

I could care less if there is a god or not.

You seem to be implying, if there's no god, you still think it's important for the general population to believe in a lie, for the 'sake of society' ?

Please keep in mind you have yet to provide evidence that religious belief is beneficial to society; whereas there is evidence provided above that suggests religiosity may be detrimental to society.


Regards,

quadz

I’m saying I don’t care, because it doesn’t affect me in everyday life.  I haven’t really drawn any conclusions, as far as what people should believe if there is no god.  And yes I do think religious belief is beneficial to society, whether you agree or not, I’d think you’d believe that in some form.  At least this is why the aheist agenda isn’t really taken serious.  It’s all a one sided story.  I don’t think they could convince the masses, but I think they’d do a better job convicing people if they didn’t only point out the negative things you could attribute to religion.


 

[quadz]

I won't go through the trouble to break all the details down, but clearly in everyday life people fear god, they worship god, and they don't know what's going on.

That's indeed how it appears to me, too.

I haven’t really drawn any conclusions, as far as what people should believe if there is no god.

Well, for starters, do you suppose they could stop killing each other in the name of religion?

And yes I do think religious belief is beneficial to society, whether you agree or not, I’d think you’d believe that in some form.

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.

At least this is why the aheist agenda isn’t really taken serious.  It’s all a one sided story.

For the sake of argument, suppose for a moment that there really is no god.  Or at least, no god that bothers to concern itself with what some tiny specks of protoplasm are doing on a little planet orbiting one of 200000000000 stars in a galaxy which is itself just one of an estimated 100000000000 galaxies in the universe.

In this context, please describe to me what you think the "atheist agenda" is.  (Because as far as I know, I have just described it in the preceeding paragraph.)


Regards,

quadz

[deft]

reaper has supplied enough material for quote of the day to last a year in just 2 posts.

[DaHanG]

this hawkings guy lost a lot of his credibility with me, when he started talking about global warming as if it existed as a fact

Quote of the Day. September 29, 2009.

[reaper]

this hawkings guy lost a lot of his credibility with me, when he started talking about global warming as if it existed as a fact

Quote of the Day. September 29, 2009.

You know how I feel about global warming. 


1) you can fix it
2) I don't buy the end of the world stuff he preaches
3) the climate is unpredicatble, but the man made effect is real (it is of concern)

I haven’t really drawn any conclusions, as far as what people should believe if there is no god.

Well, for starters, do you suppose they could stop killing each other in the name of religion?

Let's take a look at the Taliban.   They beat woman if they don't follow harsh Islamic law.  If they didn't have the Koran you think they'd be A-ok?  I'd bet they'd still beat women, still be pissed off at the west, and still be totally insane.  In other words, we'd still be different, and there'd still be the jihad.  They do what their leader says, Mullah Omar, and he'd still dictate bullshit laws, religion or not.

It just doesn't appear that the problem is simply religion.  The soviets came and created some chaos, we went and played the whole "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" deal, and left them high and dry.  Now they are pissed off, and they're going to do what the Mullah says.  They do say they have "70,000" suicide bombers, but the number isn't anywhere near that, they're just a fringe element now.  Anyways, I've read the Koran, I read it when I take shits all the time.  I don't see how this book is any different than the bible.  In my opinion it's not the root of all evil, the chaos created in the land is.

For the sake of argument, suppose for a moment that there really is no god.  Or at least, no god that bothers to concern itself with what some tiny specks of protoplasm are doing on a little planet orbiting one of 200000000000 stars in a galaxy which is itself just one of an estimated 100000000000 galaxies in the universe.

In this context, please describe to me what you think the "atheist agenda" is.  (Because as far as I know, I have just described it in the preceeding paragraph.)


Regards,

quadz

I do think there are ramifications of people knowing there is a god, vs knowing there is not.   Looking at history, civilization wouldn't of formed the way it did, with the "atheist agenda".  You apparently believe that to be a good thing.

Of course we know the truth, the beginning is "simple", and we have theories explaning everything..


 

[reaper]

Interesting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6PW3DV76wY

"
Thses are words of the noble and lion hearted pashtun men whom brought down the athiest empire to its knees, whom brought down alexanders advancing homosexual army, whom defeated chengis khans rutheless and savage army in the mountains of suleiman, whom reppelled armies of west and east and have set the barrier of of cultures of the world today, men whom feared of in persian and delhi empires, i give to you the decendants of aryans, the bearers of an aryan soul,

THE PASHTUN
"

[DaHanG]

i like the big bang theory, seems to have some decent evidence.

Quote of the day. September 30, 2009.

[quadz]

Let's take a look at the Taliban.   They beat woman if they don't follow harsh Islamic law.  If they didn't have the Koran you think they'd be A-ok?  I'd bet they'd still beat women, still be pissed off at the west, and still be totally insane.  In other words, we'd still be different, and there'd still be the jihad.  They do what their leader says, Mullah Omar, and he'd still dictate bullshit laws, religion or not.

Considering your ongoing claims that religion and 'fear of god' has played a crucial positive role in societal development, the above is such a failure of logic and reasoning I don't know where to begin.  (At best, you seem to be asserting that the culture and values of the Taliban would be just as bad if their religious dogma were removed from the equation.  But, (a) you have not supported this claim with any sort of reasoning showing how you arrived at it; and (b) the very premise undermines your prior claims about how beneficial religion has been to society.)

You may find that classes like the following are offered in your local area: http://classes.skepdic.com/logic.html

Please do take one.

[DaHanG]

i don't think people are always trying to fill in the gaps, i think a lot of people have  been believing in god a long time

Quote of the day. October 1st, 2009.

[QwazyWabbit]

reaper you eeeeidiot! Don't make me hurt you!