Ye Religion Thread

[|iR|Focalor]

Dammit man, QwazyWabbit beat me to hitting POST.

Eternity: Hopefully you don't take any of this too personally. Honestly, I'm not trying to be offensive. As a "child of the devil", you should expect as much from me anyway. I feel that if God is going to claim that he is perfect and infinitely wise, he should have had the foresight to proof-read his own bible and edit it to where man and his own will would not be able to find any fault with God's actions. To me, it's completely ridiculous how God would be so apparently sadomasochistic as to devise a system where he desires his creation to be "holy" and yet allows it have a will of it's own that is naturally the exact opposite. According to the evidence presented in the Old Testament, if God were to come down as a man and stand trial for his past actions, there would be enough proof beyond a reasonable doubt in his own testimony recorded in the Holy Bible to convict him for numerous crimes against humanity. To be somewhat facetious,... maybe that's why he always expected the gruesome end that Jesus Christ met.

[QwazyWabbit]

Dammit man, QwazyWabbit beat me to hitting POST.

I was going to cite the visitation to Abraham but I like your description of it better. 


1st man: "I hear voices telling me to do stuff."
2nd man: "The voice of God or the Devil?"
1st man: "I don't know. How can I tell?"
2nd man: "God will tell you to do good things because God is full of goodness and mercy."
1st man, stabbing 2nd man: "Good! Thanks for reassuring me. The voice was telling me to kill you but I wasn't sure if it was good or not."
2nd man, dying: "The devil is in the details!"

[|iR|Focalor]

I usually play on FFA servers. When I first joined a clan, I was wanting to get into TDM and iTDM games, but after playing a few I found that I had a lot more fun playing FFA. I like having tons of things to shoot at and not having to worry so much about 1v1 and especially 2v2 tactics where you have to drop items and worry about what your team mate is doing. iTDM is okay sometimes because its very simple, only one weapon, no health, just point and click. That's why when I left [EoM] I joined |iR|. Most of the time I alias, and I change my name all the time. I play at irtdm and irtdm2 occasionally, but I wouldn't say that I'm a regular there. I usually play at vanilla or railz, although occasionally I'll play xatrix, xrazy, dm, or something else.

Most of the guys in |iR| alias actually. Devious usually plays at vanilla in the mornings, although yesterday was the first time I saw her there in quite a while, and as far as I know she never aliases. Thief plays at vanilla sometimes under his real name. I think Carn only plays railz at irtdm. If he's aliased, you'll know who he is. He's the guy with the 15 ping thats kicking the living dogshit out of you and railing you before you even know where the hell he's coming from, just fucking deadly. Dervish plays all over the place except for vanilla and he usually aliases. Poopoppa just joined up with us, I think he's strictly a railz player. That's about all I can think of at the moment.

[quadz]

Focalor, I don't feel that you or quadz are attacking me personally.
[...]
The same cannot be said for QwazyWabbit or krenZ.

QuazyWabbit's posts were detailed and he took the time to address your own posts point-by-point.

I don't seem to recall any personal attacks.  His claim that "Scientific Creationism is a system of distortions and rationalizations and deliberate misrepresentations of scientific theories" is an attack on a system of beliefs, not on you personally.  Right?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/tj/docs/v17n2_cosmology.pdf

"Also, it is important to remember that God was not bound to any laws of physics until the end of Creation Week."

That is just....   ("Also, it is important to remember that Santa Claus' sleigh is not bound to any laws of physics until daybreak of Christmas Morning.")


I suppose this won't be helpful, but I'm reminded of the following quote:

"Creationists use facts the same way a drunk uses a lightpost: for support instead of illumination." -- Robert Ingersoll

[quadz]

In other news,

Pope 'can't pray' with wrist in plaster
Pope 'can't pray' with wrist in plaster

[QwazyWabbit]

Focalor, I don't feel that you or quadz are attacking me personally.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be offensive.

I don't believe that you are trying to be offensive. I hope my beliefs and faith are not offending you either.

The same cannot be said for QwazyWabbit or krenZ.

hmmm... you asked for examples. I provided them. This offends you? Maybe because the examples prove your God is not a god of goodness and mercy?

SNIP

Honestly, Focalor, I am not quite sure why God would order the mass killing of the Canaanites.
SNIP

Strange you should say that. A few posts ago you were sure it was because they were baby-killers.

I read with interest the paper you cite. A fine example of the strangest mental contortions I have yet seen to explain an ancient universe supporting a young earth and one of the most profound mis-uses of the principles of simultaneity and causality I have ever seen. I would have thought the author would have simply provided a ratio of Au/Ae to rationalize a celestial day to be some ratio of those days to the creation week but it appears never to have occurred to them.

First principle of Relativity: The speed of light in vacuum (c) is constant for all frames of reference.
(It was, is, and always shall be c. Amen.)

Second principle: The is no such thing as a special frame of reference. Furthermore, there is no need to have one.

Third principle: The laws of physics apply universally for all frames of reference when their relative motions are taken into account.

A more simple explanation for visibility of the universe is the big bang. Since the universe started as a point singularity and expanded outward, and since nothing can exceed the speed of light, all the light extant in the universe would have propagated across the universe as it expanded. This is the fundamental reason for the interest in the COBE experiments and investigation into the residual microwave background.

Since the stars must form after the initial expansion and the planets must form after the stars had time to fuse the heavy elements it is perfectly understandable that earth is younger than the sun and stars and universe and the ages are appropriate and proportional to the physically reproducible experiments with the isotopes involved in dating planetary geology.

By his own admission, Hartnett must apply Occam's Razor and admit the big bang and normal evolution of the universe is the more simple explanation for the universe we observe.

No miracles required. Amen.

I take it as a personal offense that you feel I have personally attacked you and you refuse to recognize the examples of atrocities in the bible which you claimed weren't there.

[quadz]

If y'all think that paper holds an untenable position, then you will never believe what I say.

One problem:



Do you agree?


Regards,

[reaper]

First principle of Relativity: The speed of light in vacuum (c) is constant for all frames of reference.
(It was, is, and always shall be c. Amen.)

In this "universe" that has held true.  At least when you send something to mars, at the speeds we do, you need to equations that deal with relativity, or you will get something somewhere else at the wrong time.  Newton's equations don't suffice for all projects nasa works with.

However who knows the properties of this universe, after it dies of heat death and never exists again, or starts all over.  Perhaps a multi-verse also exists.

Science can only look so deep at the moment, religion deals with things that are not in the realm of science.  That's not to say, you can't believe science indicates there is no god, and an alternative explanation is probable.

[quadz]

religion deals with things that are not in the realm of science.

Yes.  Precisely in the way that astrology "deals" with things that are not in the realm of science.

By making grandiose claims about the natural and supernatural, without being required to provide any evidence to substantiate those claims.


... That's what you meant, right?

[DaHanG]

Eternity, people seem to think you're trolling because creation science is basically one of the biggest jokes in the intellectual arena. Yet here you are, promoting it.

Please, do not interpret this is as a "personal attack".

[reaper]

Yes.  Precisely in the way that astrology "deals" with things that are not in the realm of science.

By making grandiose claims about the natural and supernatural, without being required to provide any evidence to substantiate those claims.


... That's what you meant, right?

no, not at all what I meant

[quadz]

no, not at all what I meant

Oh.  OK I'm sure I have it this time.  This must be what you meant by religion dealing with things that are not in the realm of science:

The most cherished goal in physics, as in bad romance novels, is unification.  To bring together two things previously understood as different and recognize them as aspects of a single entity -- when we can do it -- is the biggest thrill in science.

The only sane response to a proposed unification is surprise.  The sun is just another star -- and the stars are just suns that happen to be very far away!  Imagine the reaction of a late-sixteenth-century blacksmith or actor on hearing this wild idea of Giordano Bruno's.  What could be more absurd than to unify the sun with the stars?  People had been taught that the sun was a great fire created by God to warm the earth, while the stars were pinholes in the celestial sphere that let in the light of heaven.  Unification instantly turns your world upside down.  What you used to believe becomes impossible.  If the stars are suns, the universe is vastly bigger than we thought!  Heaven cannot be just overhead!

Even more important, a new proposal for unification brings with it unimagined hypotheses.  If the stars are other suns, there must be planets around them, on which other people live!  The implications often extend beyond science.  If there are other planets with other people on them, then either Jesus came to all of them, in which case his coming to Man was not a unique event, or all those people lose the possibility of salvation!  No wonder the Catholic Church burned Bruno alive.

Pretty typical example of how religion deals with things that are not in the realm of science.

Right?

[[BTF]Dizzy]

Eternity, people seem to think you're trolling because creation science is basically one of the biggest jokes in the intellectual arena. Yet here you are, promoting it.

This is the RELIGION thread....

So, why is there "science" in it?

Don't get me wrong, I think faith is a beautiful thing - but trying to use junk science to prove your beliefs is self defeating.

[reaper]

Oh.  OK I'm sure I have it this time.  This must be what you meant by religion dealing with things that are not in the realm of science:

No, I meant religion has the answers and science does not.

[quadz]

No, I meant religion has the answers and science does not.

Of course it does!  The stars are pinholes in the celestial sphere that let in the light of heaven.  Everybody knows that.