Ye Religion Thread

[QuakeDuke]

The Dragon In My Garage
by Carl Sagan

"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"

Would 9 hospital doctor verified myocardial infractions with NO current  heart damage qualify as footprints?

QD

I suppose I should rephrase this as : ACUTE myocardial infractions with NO current heart damage.

QD

[reaper]

 

[quadz]

Note, I am gratified you have no current heart damage, and in no way do I seek to trivialize anything you've gone through.  But I did want to ask:

I suppose I should rephrase this as : ACUTE myocardial infractions with NO current heart damage.

Couldn't God even more easily just have prevented any atherosclerotic plaque from slowly building up in the inner lining of a coronary artery, suddenly rupturing, and totally occluding the artery and preventing blood flow downstream?

Why allow any plaque to build up and rupture in the first place, only to perform the lesser miracle(?) of ensuring no detectable damage ensues?

Seems like God is allowing you to experience a lot of suffering and unpleasantness He could have trivially spared you.

Unless He's pulling a "Job" on you? 

Personally I find the story of Job to be quite immoral.  But I wouldnt wish it on anyone!


Regards,

quadz

[Whirlingdervish]

and on that note, we're all martians:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26743151/

[QwazyWabbit]

And God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son Isaac on the altar, and Abraham being the obedient servant took Isaac to the appointed place and prepared the sacrifice. So this man became the father of a great nation as a result of his obedience to the voices in his head.

Today, Abraham would be in an institution for the criminally insane for hearing voices and attempting murder. Probably being defamed and indicted by Nancy Grace on CNN-HN. Females who hear voices and kill their children are "suffering from post-partem depression".

Abraham hears voices and they are God. Other people hear voices and are called possessed. Still others hear voices and they are voices of "the Devil". Others confess to hearing voices and are "diagnosed" as schizophrenic. The consistency of the observations, actions and conclusions speak for themselves.

Muhammad claimed he heard the same voices.

QED

[DaHanG]

Except when Abraham heard the voices it really was the creator of the universe.

[Whirlingdervish]

god whispered to me from a storm drain once..

He said "we all float down here"


True story.

[quadz]

[ReCycled]

...

[|iR|Focalor]

Abraham hears voices and they are God. Other people hear voices and are called possessed. Still others hear voices and they are voices of "the Devil". Others confess to hearing voices and are "diagnosed" as schizophrenic. The consistency of the observations, actions and conclusions speak for themselves.

Muhammad claimed he heard the same voices.

QED

I wonder why Brian Nichols defense attorney hasn't used the "God gave him a vision that the judge was an oppressive slave master." angle.

Fucking retard. He goes from being charged with rape and facing a good stint in jail... to killing the judge and a few guards in order to get away... to possibly facing the death penalty now for being not only a cop killer, but a fuckin' judge killer. If the title "cop killer" usually guarantees you a place on death row, "judge killer" will more than likely teleport your ass to front of the line.

*cough* God bless Georgia for still believing in the death penalty. 

[QuakeDuke]

Note, I am gratified you have no current heart damage, and in no way do I seek to trivialize anything you've gone through.  But I did want to ask:

Couldn't God even more easily just have prevented any atherosclerotic plaque from slowly building up in the inner lining of a coronary artery, suddenly rupturing, and totally occluding the artery and preventing blood flow downstream?

Why allow any plaque to build up and rupture in the first place, only to perform the lesser miracle(?) of ensuring no detectable damage ensues?

Seems like God is allowing you to experience a lot of suffering and unpleasantness He could have trivially spared you.

Unless He's pulling a "Job" on you? 

Personally I find the story of Job to be quite immoral.  But I wouldnt wish it on anyone!
Regards,

quadz

Sorry to be so long in answering back - I don't get "out" much anymore

I suppose I'm satisfied with what I have. Whether it's "good enough" for someone else doesn't really bother me because it's fantastic as far as I'm concerned. A lot of the health problems I have fall under the category of "reaping what I sowed" - being shot, blown up, jumping out of huey's, drugs alcohol, going through windshields after that sudden stop no one likes - I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. I was told when I was 23  I wouldn't live to be 25... well.... they were and still are wrong...not much credit I can give modern medicine either, although they have done what they can.

I suppose, unlike some, I don't spend a whole lot of time questioning God's motives - not that I don't, I just don't spend a great amount of effort involved in that because I've learned it's an endless, fruitless task that only engenders more fud - so I just take what I have been given and enjoy it.

It seems to me most of the objections people have with God boils down understanding His doing, allowing, not doing, not allowing or not stopping some event - in other words, what's His motivation? Since we aren't (although we act like it some of the time) supreme all-powerful beings, I don't think we could really understand God's motives even if He took the time to explain them to us. What would be our common points of reference? Miracles are by definition a suspension of anything we can understand and we really have two choices when faced with one - acceptance or rejection - there really isn't a "put it on the shelf and think about it later" option. I suppose for me, I don't care about the problem as long as I make it through OK.

I know - straaaaannnngggeee....

QD

[DaHanG]

It seems to me most of the objections people have with God boils down understanding His doing, allowing, not doing, not allowing or not stopping some event - in other words, what's His motivation? Since we aren't (although we act like it some of the time) supreme all-powerful beings, I don't think we could really understand God's motives even if He took the time to explain them to us. What would be our common points of reference? Miracles are by definition a suspension of anything we can understand and we really have two choices when faced with one - acceptance or rejection - there really isn't a "put it on the shelf and think about it later" option. I suppose for me, I don't care about the problem as long as I make it through OK.

I think the objection is more about occam's razor (for the couple non-christian posters on this thread at least). Is it even necessary to contemplate such a complex theologically loaded world with such deep mystery, when it appears as if the laws of nature remain constant in the first place? Sure, bad and good things are destined to happen that may or may not be justified from a moral perspective, but that's exactly what one would expect in a world that was indifferent to petty human self-interests.

[[BTF]EyEsTrAiN]

[quadz]

Interesting and informative talk by Sam Harris at the 2007 Aspen Ideas Festival:

Believing the Unbelievable: The Clash Between Faith and Reason in the Modern World

(streaming video links are available in windows media, or quicktime format)

[Pr0c3550r]