Ye Religion Thread

[weezuschrist]

only cool religion is viking religion.

dude, you raped the hell out of everything and got drunk and shit and then valkyries flew you to valhalla until the final epic battle.

im glad to be a viking. too bad other eastern religions have suppressed my heritage.

[quadz]

Sad... Wrong on so many levels...

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/30/dole.ad/
Dole challenger irate over suggestion she is 'godless'

Kay Hagan erupted in anger Thursday over a television ad from Sen. Elizabeth Dole suggesting Hagan is "godless."

"I think Elizabeth Dole has just gone to the lowest of the lows," Hagan said of the ad during an appearance on a talk show on WPTF-AM in Raleigh, North Carolina. "This is an attack on my Christian faith."

Hagan, who described herself as a Sunday school teacher and an elder at a Presbyterian church in Greensboro, North Carolina, urged Dole to "pull this kind of despicable ad."

Hagan, who is challenging Dole's re-election bid, filed an application in a Wake County, North Carolina, court Thursday, seeking permission to file a complaint within 20 days, after the election is over.

"The advertisement purposely misstates facts about the plaintiff," said the three-page application, which was filed in District Superior Court.

In the 30-second ad, a narrator says that a leader of the Godless Americans Political Action Committee recently held a "secret fundraiser" for Hagan.

The ad then shows members of the group, which promotes rights for atheists and the separation of church and state, declaring that neither God nor Jesus exists.

"Godless Americans and Kay Hagan," the ad continues. "She hid from cameras. Took 'Godless' money. What did Kay Hagan promise in return?"

The ad ends with a picture of Hagan and a voice that sounds like hers declaring, "There is no God."

But the application said Hagan never made that statement or accepted money from the group.

[...]

Ugh....

[DaHanG]

Saw this on Chris Matthews...pathetic in more than one way.

[:iR:goatkilla]

check these vids out , ravi kicks some butt , owned.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4e_AOqlllc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7yNwEDtqjA&feature=relate


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgJmsK2s0uI&feature=related

[QwazyWabbit]

Owned? Hardly. The fallacies in his logic are legion.
None of his audience are qualified or willing to call him out on them.

What doesn't harm me or another is "good".
What harms me or another is "evil".
The existence of "good" does not prove or depend on the existence of "evil' or vice versa.
The only time good or evil exist is when man does action to man, there is no good or evil in nature or natural events.
Only man can say one thing is good and another not good and only in reference to his flexible and variable moral code at the moment.

[DaHanG]

Just watched the first video, nothing more than a word trick for the gullible. Not going to watch the others. 

"life is meaningless"
counterclaim: "your statement that life is meaningless is then meaningless."

Checkmate?

 

[ReCycled]

Over 100,000 views.....yikes..

 

[quadz]

I copied this post over here from the USA/pride thread, so as not to further derail that topic...

But I was wondering...

Yea, but, we ARE prohibited from practicing it in public now days to an extent, because it might Oooooffeeend some one .
And taking up a nativity scene from the towns courthouse square because of separation of Church and State???? I'm pretty darn sure that’s not going to allow the local church to influence the judges next decision, and I’m pretty sure that wasn't the intent of that amendment. But the nativity scene gets taken away anyway because it offended someone somewhere.

I notice you didn't mention having the ten commandments posted in the courthouse.  The separation of church and state is important.  If we're talking only about some nativity scene, then who cares, as long as anyone is free to put up a scene from a different denomination next to it.

heh, no i would never mention such an idiot. I mean come on, putting the 10 commandments in the courthouse ??? That was a idiot judge in Montgomery, Alabama wasn't it? It's crap like that that screws it for everybody else. I mean I understand why he was doing it, but you just can't do that, Seperation of Church and State definatly covered that one.

But, getting back to the original topic, that in itself is what ticks me about the way people act in America.
Instead of using the constitution for its intended purpose, to make sure we HAVE freedom of religion, it gets perverted by some to insure we have to actually HIDE our freedom of religion. :/

Uh.  We're nowhere near people having to "hide" their religion.  It's embarassing that politicians still have to pretend to be Christian to get elected.

Closer than you think, closer than you think. Believe me, Tell a group in public your Christian and you better be wearing a hard hat because shit is fixing to come down mighty hard. Even if most in the group can be seen in church next Sunday.

As far as politions pretending to be christians to get elected, that's just a matter of getting the popular vote and has nothing to do with Seperation of Church and State. If America was 75% buddhist they would pretend to be buddhist. And yes I agree, it's sad that they do that, but that's just the way it is the world over, not just here.

DS, I'm interested to know more about what you mean by, "Tell a group in public your Christian and you better be wearing a hard hat..."

According to 2004 estimates on http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html a huge majority of U.S. inhabitants still profess to be Christian (76.5%), followed by Nonreligious/Secular respondents (13.2%), with the remainder of religions having very much lower percentages...

So apparently, in public, in the U.S., we can expect 3 out of 4 people to self-identify as Christian. 

So I'm interested in what you are experiencing in public that leaves you feeling "shit is fixing to come down mighty hard" when you mention you're Christian?


Regards,

quadz

[haunted]

The area within an hour around me is about 95% christian. Many of them believe that there is going to be a civil war, blacks vs whites, once and if obama is assassinated. When this happens, several have told me that they plan to "defend the bridge from stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style folk" (only way to get here) with their shotguns when this happens. Just a random little story...

[Sgt. Dick]

The area within an hour around me is about 95% christian. Many of them believe that there is going to be a civil war, blacks vs whites, once and if obama is assassinated. When this happens, several have told me that they plan to "defend the bridge from stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style folk" (only way to get here) with their shotguns when this happens. Just a random little story...

I really hope nothing like that happens.  If obama did get shot, I'm sure violence would breakout.  I just hope it would not be widespread and would settle down quickly. 

This country has came along way in race relations, a obama assassination would set us back at least 50 years.

I also want obama to have a chance to server his full term to see if he is gonna be the messiah that many make him out to be.
It killed me the way my local paper always used the picture of obama with the spotlights behind him (it made a glowing dome around his head)   

[reaper]

When this happens, several have told me that they plan to "defend the bridge from stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style folk" (only way to get here) with their shotguns when this happens. Just a random little story...

outlook grim

[|iR|Focalor]

The area within an hour around me is about 95% christian. Many of them believe that there is going to be a civil war, blacks vs whites, once and if obama is assassinated. When this happens, several have told me that they plan to "defend the bridge from stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style folk" (only way to get here) with their shotguns when this happens. Just a random little story...

Gotta love the southern folk. Like 30 or 40 hicks with shotguns are going to prevent a Cadillac Escalade from barreling right through them all at full speed.

A "race war" would be the biggest slap in the face to the civil rights movement EVER! All this time, thinking they've made so much headway on racial equality, only to find out that hordes of white people have simply been harboring that same old hatred under the surface. *cough* ...and as much as most folks are unwilling to publicly admit it, in private conversations you'll find that it's very true. At least down south.

[DaHanG]

There will not be a race war...some people are just really stupid.

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

I copied this post over here from the USA/pride thread, so as not to further derail that topic...

But I was wondering...

Yea, but, we ARE prohibited from practicing it in public now days to an extent, because it might Oooooffeeend some one .
And taking up a nativity scene from the towns courthouse square because of separation of Church and State???? I'm pretty darn sure that’s not going to allow the local church to influence the judges next decision, and I’m pretty sure that wasn't the intent of that amendment. But the nativity scene gets taken away anyway because it offended someone somewhere.

I notice you didn't mention having the ten commandments posted in the courthouse.  The separation of church and state is important.  If we're talking only about some nativity scene, then who cares, as long as anyone is free to put up a scene from a different denomination next to it.

heh, no i would never mention such an idiot. I mean come on, putting the 10 commandments in the courthouse ??? That was a idiot judge in Montgomery, Alabama wasn't it? It's crap like that that screws it for everybody else. I mean I understand why he was doing it, but you just can't do that, Seperation of Church and State definatly covered that one.

But, getting back to the original topic, that in itself is what ticks me about the way people act in America.
Instead of using the constitution for its intended purpose, to make sure we HAVE freedom of religion, it gets perverted by some to insure we have to actually HIDE our freedom of religion. :/

Uh.  We're nowhere near people having to "hide" their religion.  It's embarassing that politicians still have to pretend to be Christian to get elected.

Closer than you think, closer than you think. Believe me, Tell a group in public your Christian and you better be wearing a hard hat because shit is fixing to come down mighty hard. Even if most in the group can be seen in church next Sunday.

As far as politions pretending to be christians to get elected, that's just a matter of getting the popular vote and has nothing to do with Seperation of Church and State. If America was 75% buddhist they would pretend to be buddhist. And yes I agree, it's sad that they do that, but that's just the way it is the world over, not just here.

DS, I'm interested to know more about what you mean by, "Tell a group in public your Christian and you better be wearing a hard hat..."

According to 2004 estimates on http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html a huge majority of U.S. inhabitants still profess to be Christian (76.5%), followed by Nonreligious/Secular respondents (13.2%), with the remainder of religions having very much lower percentages...

So apparently, in public, in the U.S., we can expect 3 out of 4 people to self-identify as Christian. 

So I'm interested in what you are experiencing in public that leaves you feeling "shit is fixing to come down mighty hard" when you mention you're Christian?


Regards,

quadz

That is just simply something that I cannot answer here in a few sentences on a forum.
That subject alone could make up a whole multipage post on its own. But for sure it's just something you have to actually witness for yourself.
But, i'm not talking about just walking up to a group and "Hey, I'm a Christian!" I'm talking about it being brought up in conversations, etc.
But to put in perspective, look back over this very thread, if there is one pro-religious/Christian reply their will be several more replies trying to tear it apart. You feel like your one against five. Believe it or not it's the same way out in the real world. I've had people bravo me in IRC and in PMs after I’ve replied in here, but (with the exception of one person) why haven't they posted themselves? Again it's the same in the real world. 75% of USA is Christian you say, well they do a good job at watching the wolves eat, but only offer their support (in private) when the wolves have got their fill and left because they're afraid of getting caught up in a debate and being eaten by the wolves themselves. I know because I’ve been guilty of it myself. How does this happen if 75% of America is said to be Christian ??? Well that's one for someone smarter than me to figure out because frankly I have no idea, but it happens, and happens ALOT.

Closer than you think, closer than you think. Believe me, Tell a group in public your Christian and you better be wearing a hard hat because shit is fixing to come down mighty hard. Even if most in the group can be seen in church next Sunday.

I am pretty confused about this persecution complex ( ). About 80% of America is Christian. Even if Christians are frequently outed for exposing their beliefs to a group, is there any impact that remains the following day? Sticks and stones can....

No, normally there isn't any impact the following day. But in the rare occasions if their is any, this helps.

Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

Yea, but, we ARE prohibited from practicing it in public now days to an extent, because it might Oooooffeeend some one .
And taking up a nativity scene from the towns courthouse square because of separation of Church and State???? I'm pretty darn sure that’s not going to allow the local church to influence the judges next decision, and I’m pretty sure that wasn't the intent of that amendment. But the nativity scene gets taken away anyway because it offended someone somewhere.

I notice you didn't mention having the ten commandments posted in the courthouse.  The separation of church and state is important.  If we're talking only about some nativity scene, then who cares, as long as anyone is free to put up a scene from a different denomination next to it.

I'd have no problem with a county courthouse having a sweet little nativity scene on the front lawn... just as long as I'm allowed to put up a Solstice tree right beside it adorned with my own religious symbol on the top of it. ...since it's not going affect the judges decisions, right?

Somehow I doubt that would ever fly though. And I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for complaining about such a display.

Why?

Because people would say that the government is endorsing Satanism, or what most people would incorrectly refer to as "devil worship". That's the exact same way I view it when a courthouse or government building displays a nativity scene during Xmas. It's a statement that says, "We value Christianity more than other religions/philosophies."

However, people are going to bitch about it no matter what you do. You can stop saying "Merry Christmas" and just say "Happy Holidays" to be completely generic, but even THAT could potentially bunch the panties of a few old-school pagan yo-yo's. The term "holiday" means HOLY DAY, a day which has ordained as sanctified by the catholic church. In reality, Christmas is NOT when Jesus was born. The catholic church simply stole solstice (a few other celebratory days) from the pagans, changed the names a little, obscured the meanings, and called it their own so that they could "cleanse" the people from the poison of the heathen traditions. Halloween has lots of imagery of death. It also happens in the middle of FALL, when the harvest is dying off... just to give you a little hint about the true meaning behind Halloween.

Anyway...

I'm not saying that I'm going to spend a day picketing with signs if my local courthouse puts up a nativity scene (which they don't, good for them), but I certainly don't think it's appropriate for them or any other government office to imply that they endorse any specific religion over another.

I’d really like to touch on this.
First, if there is a nativity scene on the courthouse square it doesn't mean they endorse Christianity, no more than our Halloween decorations on the square imply that the courthouse endorses witches and evil pumpkins. It's a religious holiday and they put up the appropriate decoration for whatever holiday it is. The point I was making is that some people pervert the separation of church and state amendment to have it taken down.

It can go both ways, if their was a Hale Satan day and 75% of the towns population celebrated that day and put up some pentagrams on the square, far be it for me to rune it for everyone else. THATS WHAT PISSES ME OFF. A very few people RUNE something for everyone else simply because they don't agree with it. And they will pervert the separation of church and state amendment to get it done.
My question is why ????
If i was born in Iran, why should I rune it for everyone else just because "I" don't agree with it. Oh wait, that's right, you can't do that there, you would get shot in the face. Silly me, I forgot.
But, we live in America, where your free to that.
Again, the point is, We live in America, where instead of most people being "thankful" that they can legally stage and hold a (insert religion of chose here) demonstration, march, and/or parade, most would rather screw someone out of their fun because "they" didn't sign off on it.

[|iR|Focalor]

I’d really like to touch on this.
First, if there is a nativity scene on the courthouse square it doesn't mean they endorse Christianity, no more than our Halloween decorations on the square imply that the courthouse endorses witches and evil pumpkins. It's a religious holiday and they put up the appropriate decoration for whatever holiday it is. The point I was making is that some people pervert the separation of church and state amendment to have it taken down.

It can go both ways, if their was a Hale Satan day and 75% of the towns population celebrated that day and put up some pentagrams on the square, far be it for me to rune it for everyone else. THATS WHAT PISSES ME OFF. A very few people RUNE something for everyone else simply because they don't agree with it. And they will pervert the separation of church and state amendment to get it done.
My question is why ????
If i was born in Iran, why should I rune it for everyone else just because "I" don't agree with it. Oh wait, that's right, you can't do that there, you would get shot in the face. Silly me, I forgot.
But, we live in America, where your free to that.
Again, the point is, We live in America, where instead of most people being "thankful" that they can legally stage and hold a (insert religion of chose here) demonstration, march, and/or parade, most would rather screw someone out of their fun because "they" didn't sign off on it.

I didn't really want to "debate" anything by saying any of that. I simply thought my perspective on the issue was relevant given that no one else around here seems to be party to my particular choice of religion/philosophy. If there was someone who was affiliated with some other non-mainstream religion or philosophy, I'd be interested in hearing their perspective on various issues too.

Having a nativity scene displayed on a courthouse lawn may not ACTUALLY mean that they endorse Christianity, but it does "imply" it, just as some Christian activists believe that displaying cutouts of witches and devils at Halloween implies endorsement of witchcraft to a degree. I live in reality though. I'm not some anti-Christian crusader like others who may use the term "Satanist" to describe themselves. I'm not hell bent on "ridding the world of the disease of Christianity", like some of those assholes will loudly proclaim. Personally, I don't care enough about people I've never met to want to improve their lives by removing them from the slavery of some dogma that I happen to disagree with. And coincidentally, I'm of the opinion that "Satanists" who claim that as one of their primary goals in life... aren't Satanists at all. I worry about things in my own life that affect me in a personal way. I know that the government isn't going to pop up one of these days and adopt a theocratic system in place of a democratic one. All evidence shows that the people in this country are beginning to question tradition and convention more and more, which leads me to believe that Christianity and other faith based religions will eventually fade on their own, which obviously renders the possibility of the arising of a theocratic government a relative impossibility.

What it all boils down to is "public opinion", because we are a democracy. As long as the majority of people are not opposed to the public display of a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn, it will remain... even if it IS against any recorded policy. Many states in the south used to display the Confederate flag on their state flag, my own state included. It wasn't added to the state flag until the mid-1900's, quite a while after the civil war, and coincidentally when the fight for civil rights and racial equality was raging. "All men are created equal", but that didn't prevent southern states from implying that they weren't by including the pro-slavery symbol of the Confederate flag on their state flags. In recent years, I believe ALL of the southern states have removed that symbol from their state flags. So as you see, as times change and/or public opinions change, so do laws. The new testament and old testaments of the Holy Bible are yet another example of this. Jesus Christ was crucified for your sins, which means that you no longer have to sacrifice an unblemished lamb anymore.

Basically my stance on the issue is the same as yours. It doesn't personally affect me to see a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn, so I'm not going to waste my valuable time by protesting it. I wouldn't have such a display on my own lawn, but I'm not going to be the turd in the punchbowl and ruin everyone elses fun by crusading against such a thing.

As far as your statement about "perverting separation of church and state"... The government is not supposed to influence the practice of religion in any way. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that religion shouldn't influence the practice and judgment of the government either. The Catholic church (in my opinion) is nothing more than it's own political institution, a theocracy defined. They have "power", it's undeniable. All Christian denominations who operate within some type of organization (the Southern Baptist Convention for example) promote certain candidates to their members because they support issues they agree with. I'm also of the firm opinion that religion is a man-made construct for the purpose of governing and control. Just opinion, doesn't mean anything really. But to assume that religion does not have the power to influence the government is egregiously false. History books prove this point very well.

As I said before, it's all about "public opinion". As long as we are a "democracy" and the majority of people WANT the 10 commandments in the courthouse, it will remain there. If the majority of people want the government to start reverting to Old Testament law, it will happen. No doubt there will be folks carrying buckets of rocks in the town square every Saturday at lunch time for the weekly "Stoning of the Homosexuals".