Ye Religion Thread

[Arm0r]

So there never really was true "nothing", it has always existed huh?  Sounds religious to me.  Keep the faith.

But wouldn't this be an alternative explanation for the formation of the universe, not requiring supernatural intervention?  Ultimately Occam's razor would be a guiding light no?  Not only that, but this understanding of the universe and its mechanics were built on sound scientific principles, where many components are even testable.  Science often requires creativity, and this theory that something always exists, leads us to these conclusions based on our knowledge of the universe.  Won't this be one of the highlights of humanity?

Nice impression    But by nothing I mean nothing, I don't mean some empty space, that would be something.  I mean nothing, N-O-T-H-I-N-G...how do you create anything from nothing, to even claim there is an force with no begining is on par with religion.  It takes faith.

[quadz]

Sorry just had to answer that one for quadz.  Did I do okay with my impersonation?

Heh

I was going to say something like:

So there never really was true "nothing", it has always existed huh? Sounds religious to me. Keep the faith.

We don't know that there was never a true "nothing".  But what we have discovered is that quantum mechanics doesn't allow a true "nothing" to exist in our universe.  (As Lawrence Krauss put it, 'nothing' is unstable.)

That alone is really interesting/fasciating to me.

But I don't need faith on the question of whether there ever used to be truly nothing at all (no matter, no energy, no space-time with any dimensions or properties like quantum mechanics, etc.)  I simply don't know the answer.

But, I would not be surprised if the tendency to think "there must have been absolutely nothing at the very beginning" arises out of a bias in human intuition, as we're used to things having a beginning, middle, and end.

It may in fact be perfectly reasonable for space-time to have always existed, even though our primate intuitions have trouble grappling with the concept.

So as not to disappoint reaper, I'll throw in some Occam's Razor for good measure.  I've ordered the following possibilities from what I believe to be least, to most complex:

1. space-time has always existed
2. first there was nothing, and later space-time began to exist
3. god has always existed, and later god created space-time
4. first there was nothing, then god began to exist, and later god created space-time

So, yeah, just going by Occam's Razor, I'd pick #1.  I don't have any faith about it though...


Regards,

quadz

[reaper]

Hey I tried.

 

I disagree with the 4 options listed: the human definition of nothing implies nothing can come from nothing, which I was talking about in the other thread.  Some kind of energy fields affecting voids is not "nothing".  I also disagree with the timing of events listed in your options, they look overly simplified.

[QwazyWabbit]

It's not a timing of events. It's a list of theories according to complexity. The least complex is that space-time always existed, it doesn't require a creator to exist first.

To quote the bible:

"I AM THAT I AM. Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel I AM has sent me unto you." Exodus 3:14

Therefore God has said He always existed.

Rene Descartes said: "I think, therefore I am."

Valentine Michael Smith said: "Thou art God!"

But even logic can tie you up in knots: http://www.wimp.com/deepakchopra/

Mankind has a name for pre-existence but we can't wrap our head around it. It's called eternity. Our brain, being temporal, needs a cause and effect, the prime mover. But every cause needs an effect and the only thing left is to cut it off at some arbitrary point and say "I don't know, it's just eternal."

The only question then is, when will Man become mature enough to know that he is made of the stuff of the Universe and the Universe is the origin of Man. The fundamental precept of Buddhism is that sentient beings are of the Tao and the Tao has always existed. To realize the Tao, all one needs to do is to understand one's true nature and to stop looking for it elsewhere.

[QuakeDuke]

It's not a timing of events. It's a list of theories according to complexity. The least complex is that space-time always existed, it doesn't require a creator to exist first.

To quote the bible:

"I AM THAT I AM. Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel I AM has sent me unto you." Exodus 3:14

Therefore God has said He always existed.

Rene Descartes said: "I think, therefore I am."

Valentine Michael Smith said: "Thou art God!"

But even logic can tie you up in knots: http://www.wimp.com/deepakchopra/

Mankind has a name for pre-existence but we can't wrap our head around it. It's called eternity. Our brain, being temporal, needs a cause and effect, the prime mover. But every cause needs an effect and the only thing left is to cut it off at some arbitrary point and say "I don't know, it's just eternal."

The only question then is, when will Man become mature enough to know that he is made of the stuff of the Universe and the Universe is the origin of Man. The fundamental precept of Buddhism is that sentient beings are of the Tao and the Tao has always existed. To realize the Tao, all one needs to do is to understand one's true nature and to stop looking for it elsewhere.

Well said QW.

QD

[reaper]

You don't see computers forming themselves, and things happening to be just the way they want and should be [/b]

What is the scientific explanation for this?  Hint: it does not exist

 

[QwazyWabbit]

Logic stopped here, had a brain fart and took a left turn into the cul de sac of non-sequitur.

[|iR|Focalor]

You don't see computers forming themselves,

Not YET anyway. I think the goal is to eventually go from "plug-n-play".... to just "play". Eventually we'll all be married to and fucking artificial human companions that are so real, no one will be able to tell the difference until you cut it open.

[QwazyWabbit]

Already a month old but just another example of the "Religion of Peace" at work.

http://www.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/02/bangladeshi-teen-dies-from-sharia-lashing-after-reportedly-being-raped/1?csp=obinsite

It looks like the villagers decided the actions and thoughts of the idiotic, intolerant and unjust mullahs of the council was enough. Good for them. Now administer the punishment murder deserves under their own law.

"A tree is known by its fruit."

[The Dreaming Dragon]

http://videosift.com/video/Church-of-Satan-Website-Promo

http://videosift.com/video/Anton-LaVey-Speaks-about-Satanism
 

[|iR|Focalor]

Oooooooo, scary.

[Arm0r]

wow dude, ur so hardcore! 

[Arm0r]

If it makes no difference why bother burning the bible in the first place?  In fact, if religion as a whole makes no difference to you then why even post on this thread as religion is the main topic?

[adz1La]

what a terrible fucking drawing....the fucking guy doesn't have an undershirt on up top....but has one at the waist.....what are you fucking 7............

[quadz]

The picture is meant to show, "the way of the world."

Thanks for clarifying.  That seems to make its intent less vulgar than I would have assumed.


Regards,

quadz