Ye Religion Thread

[Whirlingdervish]

1.

for the sake of simplifying things down to the reaper level of understanding, and putting them in layman's terms I used the term "anti-energies" which would actually be referring to various types of antiparticles, all made out of combinations of a limitted number of different kinds of quarks which consist of strings (little bands of energy) in certain combinations.

Certain types of quarks create subatomic "particles" that represent the antithesis of the ones that make all of the matter in our part of this universe. Most of these 'antiparticles' do not exist in great numbers here because the laws of physics in this part of the universe do not allow them to. If they are created here, they usually become destroyed or degrade very quickly.

We have not charted the entire universe, or even most of the visible local parts of the universe, so stating that there isn't enough antimatter to cancel out all matter, because we have not seen it, is stupid. The fact that we are here, made of matter, is enough to lead to the logical conclusion that it exists somewhere other than here.

We haven't seen it, because it cannot exist in our region of the universe due to the local values of certain 'constants' that define how quarks and strings can work in this region within the physical laws that we have discovered.

2.

The big bang theory does not say that a tiny ball of energy instantly exploded into people and planets. You are incorrect.

All it is, is a theory about the possible initial condition of the universe, prior to the expansion phase wherein we exist. Everything after that is covered by other theory, including those laws of physics that currently define how we believe our observable universe works.

From the moment directly after the big bang, until now, we can explain how a great deal of the rest of it came to be, using theory that can currently be tested and observed to be correct.
(People, planets, stars, galaxies)

[haunted]

Well, that is basically what evolution says: "There was a tiny point of energy, smaller than a period, that somehow blows up and creates galaxies, stars, worlds, and humans." Despite this, when energy DOES become matter, it creates an equal amount of antimatter. There is very little antimatter in the universe, so this "energy to matter" conversion has a serious problem. And saying that matter always was around makes no sense either. If that were true, then all matter and energy would have blown themselves away an eternity ago.

It wasn't estimated as "smaller than a period." Also please do not confuse the theory of evolution with the big-bang theory. C'mon 

In addition, what would you have done if God had said, "OK, I'm creating reaper in heaven, Eternity in heaven, and focalor in hell." What would you say? Probably something along the lines of, "That ain't f***ing fair! I never got a single lousy chance! Instead, I'm created and damned right from the start, and Eternity gets paradise without even having to try!"

Ignorant example. This is something i'm sure of: If there is a God, AND an after-life, reverence to him would NOT be a pre-requisite. People who think this are sadly mistaken. Why couldn't a good, loving person who didn't believe in god go to heaven? These people are even better and stronger in god's eyes than reverent church-goers that pray to him because they're being a good person for THEMSELVES... not because some preacher's warped interpretation of the bible tells them to do so. I take pride in not needing fear/faith in a supreme being and still being a good person. And if God exists he would take pride in his creations doing this as well.

Have to go to work, but I would suggest doing more research ya'll. The discussion/argument isn't even fun when I think i'm responding to a troll.

[haunted]

Eternity... looking up generalized formulas off wikipedia is not a good argument. Every time you do this, in regards to the context you use them, it's evident that you don't have a grasp on the concepts of what you're referring to.

Aside from that, you rarely make any points at all. It's getting ridiculous. You really, really need to educate yourself on these matters or something... just because you say something, or someone else says something and you read it, does not mean that it's true. No offense, I'm just encouraging you to research a better argument.

Even if God does not exist (I firmly believe that he does!), Christians today are doing a lot of good things. They take food and the gospel to Africa and help the people there. This is as opposed to governments who just dump money into the hands of corrupt politicians and dictators. Christians are commonly the first to help--look at Hurricane Katrina & FEMA. Also, Christians tend to be more law-abiding than non-Christians, because our value system tells us "do not cheat on taxes, do not speed, do not do whatever is against the law" because we believe in an eternal reward and an eternal punishment.


P.S. By the way, I am still waiting for an example of a "missing link", and not some vague weasely language about us not finding any because not much gets fossilized.... But then why does anything get fossilized, and why does some stuff fossilize through multiple rock layers that supposedly span millions of years?

First paragraph:

Umm... Christianity is even more corrupt dude. Sorry to break it to you. The main difference that makes it more is because in America it's ACCEPTABLE. Anyone who believes different is a product of religious leaders twisting religion to fit their own agenda. And yes, Christianity has left such a wonderful mark on history and society! From genocide, to slavery, to the crusades, to serfdom, to blind imperialism, to the holocaust.......... idk what all of us would be like without all the good things christianity has done!

2nd paragraph:

How old are you? You don't know how things get fossilized and "supposedly" rocks that span millions of years? You have got to be kidding me.

[paradisel0st]

Eternity, I always find it strange when someone has an issue believing in matter 'always being there' yet they have no issue believing in an omnipotent being always existing. Regardless though, you seem to be a follower of what seems to be a rather common misconception that Christians somehow operate with a higher level of morality due to following the religion. Christians have (as my sidekick haunted earlier pointed out) been responsible for horrible things in history. Personally I do not understand your logic. Christians do wonderful things helping people in Africa who are starving, dying from horrible diseases..etc. My way of thinking is these are problems that are very unnecessary and that a 'wonderful loving' God would not allow. Though even then, I'm told these issues exist as some sort of 'trial'. Frankly if I had the type of life they have to endure, "Gospel" would be the last damn thing I'd want to hear. I don't think I could understand how much God loves and adores me while I'm suffering, starving with nothing to call home.

On another note..what are they teaching in schools these days? Or are you told not to pay attention to anything science related in Church? Carbon dating anyone..?   

[|iR|Focalor]

You have created a dilemma by creating only two possibilities. Have you ever considered a third? That God might be trying to show humans how they feel and whether they truly believe in Him?

I indeed DO consider the 3rd side of the coin. The side that says the reason why God can only appear imperfect is because the idea of him was created by imperfect humans. To clarify one thing... God has never shown humans how they feel. The serpent gave mankind that gift when he told Eve what eating the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil would do. If you ask me, you owe your salvation and faith in God to the devil himself, along with your cognition of EVERYTHING you have ever known. The devil has done so much for you, and you give him so little respect and appreciation.

In addition, what would you have done if God had said, "OK, I'm creating reaper in heaven, Eternity in heaven, and focalor in hell." What would you say? Probably something along the lines of, "That ain't f***ing fair! I never got a single lousy chance! Instead, I'm created and damned right from the start, and Eternity gets paradise without even having to try!"

I wouldn't complain about what's "fair". Nothing else God has ever supposedly done up to this point has ever been logical, made sense, or been fair. Ask Job, he got fucked royally for no reason at all. The devil didn't do one bit of it either. He had a conversation with God and tempted him to cause the malicious misfortunes that befell him all on his own. Job was a holy and righteous man who loved God like crazy, and all because one spirit whispered words of his own doubt in his ear, he decided to lay waste to his family, all his possessions, everyone he ever knew, and gave him painful boils over 99% of his body. But God is always full of fairness and justice.

[quadz]

yeah that's true, but I wouldn't bet against humans surviving in some form, abliet fucked up (yet perfect, because god works in mysterious ways), hey that's just how it is...

[kren.Z]

q

[reaper]

Like dervish said, universal constants are also interesting. The cosmoglogical constant in the field equations of General Relativity is very important. It's existence requires a stationary universe, however as we all know, the universe is accelerating.

I believe the idea is, when you use the Einstein field equations from general relativity given all the estimated mass in the universe, the universe should be pulling together, but it's observed to be pushing apart.  Basically how spacetime should be shaped as a whole, and how matter and spacetime should interact on a universal scale.   So at the time he figured the universe should be static, so he fixed it with the constant, then later observed evidence that all visible galaxies that we can see out to are moving apart, noting a doppler like effect on the light emissions.  So now anti-matter is introduced to solve this problem, and possibly for other reasons.  His theories describe how the universe should behave, what spactime (matter shaping the space, and how time relates to motion through this space) should look like, for small scales, and large scales. Modeling the universe is done through his equations, but it breaks down at the big bang because of infinite densitities, and we observer x mass, but don't see what we expect, there anti-matter comes in.

Maybe that is botched up, but that's what I gathered from wikipedia

Anyways, modern physics is at a stand still. Unlike the development of early quantum mechanics that led to modern electronics or the Mass/Energy equivalence that led to the Atomic Bomb, todays scientific theories are really just fallacies of thought.

I'm sure Stephen Hawkings picked black holes to work on for good reason, who knows what that will lead to.

The "main" goal right now is to unify some forces.  So when you find relationships between different things, you have a greater understanding of the nature of the universe.  For instance Einstein found a relationship between space and time, now people are working on highlighting the relationships between fundamental quantom forces.

The LHC is pretty impressive, no?

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a little reading from the Illustrious Koran!
Repentance 9 - 9 Koran

If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men without knowledge

A little later what I read yesterday:
kill the infedels without mercy

Maybe this is going to be used as a tool for some nut like bin laden someday?  My issue is you can interpret any religion in a negative way...

 

[|iR|Focalor]

a little reading from the Illustrious Koran!
Repentance 9 - 9 Koran

If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men without knowledge

A little later what I read yesterday:
kill the infedels without mercy

Maybe this is going to be used as a tool for some nut like bin laden someday?  My issue is you can interpret any religion in a negative way...

 

Some day? I kinda thought it was an established fact that these towelheads were using the Qu'ran presently as moral justification for declaring Jihad on western civilization. If you're looking for Islam to ever make sense, you're going to be waiting around for a long long time. It's pretty simple, just take a look at what everyday life is like in countries ruled by Islamic law. The general public commonly only has access to what we consider inferior technology, a larger percentage of them live in squalor, etc etc. Mohammed was nothing more than a war criminal much like Hitler, only he succeeded in keeping his annexed territories under rule and control. They're not unlike the Catholic church of centuries past in that they will pick and choose their scriptures to support their agendas while ignoring any other subsequent scriptures that may be contradictory.

[kren.Z]

q

[haunted]

Maybe this is going to be used as a tool for some nut like bin laden someday?  My issue is you can interpret any religion in a negative way...

 

Have you ever asked yourself why every religion can be interpreted in a bad way? It's because every religion except for hinduism has done some dirty, rotten, crooked, inhumane shit. Scandals, genocide, crooked dictatorships/politics, propaganda, i mean the list just goes on and on. Many christians and muslims seem to have opposing opinions about each other.. both claiming that extremists run the others' religion. Both are right in many cases, which makes both groups hypocritical in many cases... more importantly, both use God as a tool to bend religion to fit their own agenda. Then there's the jews, or what's left of them after that those dirty christians attempted to wipe them off the face of the earth, who are now surrounded by islamic countries who shit on them on a daily basis in the form of suicide bombings and hundreds of missiles. Fuck those dirty jews for retaliating!--you're right reaper, every religion can be interpreted in a bad way!

 

[|iR|Focalor]

Here is how a lot of religions justify their actions:

Fuck those dirty jews

Fuck those dirty jews? YEAH! FUCK 'EM! LET'S KILL 'EM ALL! HAUNTED WOULD APPROVE!

With enough editing and quoting out of context, you can probably make a Harry Potter book advocate genocide.

[paradisel0st]

Here is how a lot of religions justify their actions:

Fuck those dirty jews

Fuck those dirty jews? YEAH! FUCK 'EM! LET'S KILL 'EM ALL! HAUNTED WOULD APPROVE!

With enough editing and quoting out of context, you can probably make a Harry Potter book advocate genocide.

Yes take for instance how drastically I'm taking all of these statements out of context...oh wait 

(1 Sam 6:19 RSV) And he (God) slew some of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they looked into the ark
of the LORD; he slew seventy men of them, and the people mourned because the Lord had made a great slaughter among the people.

(Num 16:20-21 NRSV) Then the LORD spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying: Separate yourselves from this congregation, so that I may consume them in a moment. They fell on their faces, and said, "O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one person sin and you become angry with the whole congregation?"

(Num 16:45 NRSV) "Get away from this congregation, so that I may consume them in a moment." And they fell on their faces.



(Num 16:27 NRSV) (…)and Dathan and Abiram came out and stood at the entrance of their tents, together with their wives , their children , and their little ones .


(Num 16:32-33 NRSV) The earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, along with their households–everyone who belonged to Korah and all their goods. So they with all that belonged to them went down alive into Sheol; the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly.

(Num 16:35 NRSV) And fire came out from the LORD and consumed the two hundred fifty men offering the incense.

(Num 16:41 NRSV) On the next day, however, the whole congregation of the Israelites rebelled against Moses and against Aaron, saying, "You have killed the people of the LORD."

(Num 16:49 NRSV) Those who died by the plague were fourteen thousand seven hundred, besides those who died in the affair of Korah.

(11:1-4) People of Hazor, Madon, Shimron, Achshaph, northern hill country, Arabah, Naphoth-dor, Canaanites in the east and the west, the Amorites , the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites and the Hivites unite against the Israelites.

(11:14) All the spoil of these towns, and the livestock, the Israelites took for their booty; but all the people they struck down with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them, and they did not leave any who breathed.

(Let there be no doubt whose idea it was for these genocides)

(11:20) For it was the Lord’s doing to harden their hearts (the Canaanites) so that they would come against Israel in battle, in order that they might be utterly destroyed, and might receive no mercy, but be exterminated, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

[|iR|Focalor]

Your hatred of Christianity has been duly noted.

[QwazyWabbit]

Your hatred of Christianity has been duly noted.

He quoted the Old Testament, the hatred would be for the god of the jews.

The Christian god would be a loving god. To see examples of his love and divine plan, one must read Revelation and know that a generation of turmoil, plague, pestilence, disease, death and war must be visited upon humanity before his divine glory can be achieved.