TOOL

[[BTF]n0ctuary]

Look I could care less if someone likes Tool. The issue with me is when some moron like n0c. (and practically every other tool fan around) claims they are so much more talented than any other band. You like Tool? Fine, but how about you let us have OUR opinion instead of throwing that "we dont get it" bs at us. I know you didn't personally say that, but I see and hear that said by Tool fans constantly. Like they are just so amazingly talented I just can't fathom their talent and creativity. Give me a break. Selling records means nothing with idiots like you guys out there (referring to anyone who said tool is good on this thread). It's all about an image. Everyone thinks they are so amazing and unique, because they listen to Tool! That's because Tool is so amazing and unique!!

Ok man, you got it wrong. I'm not some rabid tool fan, I just like some of their songs, and I think they deserve credit for displaying actual musical ability, which is rare in a band that sells records like they do. I wouldn't even describe myself as a tool fan, i like older metal stuff, like testament and slayer, and crazy shred stuff such as megadeth, rusty cooley, and yngwie malmsteen. I noticed someone (might have been you) posted a guitar tab earlier. 2 measures of one song are not enough to make your point. I could choose the simplest 2 measures Yngwie has ever and say he's an idiot, but he's not. Plus, you seem to be under the impression that someone is not talented if they don't constantly play 32nd notes at 150 BPM. Tools talent lies in their rythmic abilities. In guitar world a few months back they had a tab of Schism by tool. I used to think that song was exceedingly simple until i saw just how complex the rythyms were. The song alternates between 2/4 and 3/4 time, which one could argue makes it 5/4 which on its own is a difficult meter to play in to begin with. However, they add an accent where the third beat of a 5/4 measure would be, thus making it 2/4 and 3/4. This helps to give tool their familiar "throbbing" sound. I could go on like this for days though, but you probably don't want to hear it. All I meant in my original post is that they deserve credit for making interesting, thought provoking music in a time when most of the stuff that gets played on the radio is the same 3 chord bullshit by senses fail and fallout boy and all those queers. It's easy for metal heads (myself included) to bash a metal band that comes out of left field and gets popular really quickly while there are other amazing bands who may deserve it more than they do. However, it's music. We should judge it by its actual musical merits, not how many units the band sells, not how they dress, not what time period they came from and all that bullshit. I'm open to a legitimate discussion about music, but not some idiotic flamewar about who is more of a TRUE ELITE METALHEAD.

[[BTF]n0ctuary]

Tool is not metal. Like I said before it doesn't just take guitars and distortion to be metal.

Don't argue that Tool is metal if you don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

They're like alternative rock or something.

Does Tool sound like Burzum, Mayhem, Darkthrone? No...guess they're not black metal...

Does Tool sound like Suffocation, Immolation, Gorguts? Not really...guess they're not death metal...

Does Tool sound like Saint Vitus, Candlemass or Reverend Bizarre? No, so they're not really doom metal...

Does Tool sound like The Lord Weird Slough Feg, Windir or Graveland? No...so they're not really folk metal.

Does Tool sound like (early) Carcass, Repulsion or Terrorizer? No...no grindcore either.

Does Tool sound like Jag Panzer, Helloween or Dragonforce? No...guess no power metal either.

Does Tool sound like Fates Warning, Symphony X or Queensr

[Whirlingdervish]

whoa this got out of hand quickly.
Maybe we should all make sure that we don't go

[haunted]

Tool is complete and total shit, as I said the only thing slightly commendable is their drummer who is on crack.

dahang - I always figured that 'nu-metal' was OLD thrice kind of stuff.. haha, I just like some of thrice's older stuff, didn't want them in the same category as tool 

[DaHanG]

well don't worry, tool and thrice are not in the same genre. the only thing they have in common is playing shitty music, with tool on a whole other level of shittiness.

random fact: playing the shittiest/simplest riffs in goofy time signatures does not substitute for talent in any way.

[[BTF]n0ctuary]

Tool is complete and total shit, as I said the only thing slightly commendable is their drummer who is on crack.

dahang - I always figured that 'nu-metal' was OLD thrice kind of stuff.. haha, I just like some of thrice's older stuff, didn't want them in the same category as tool 

Nu Metal is korn and the deftones, and all those bands.

random fact: playing the shittiest/simplest riffs in goofy time signatures does not substitute for talent in any way.

That sounds like something granny would say. Either you've never picked up an instrument in your life, or you're terrible at whatever instrument you play. Being able to play in a wide range of time signatures is part of the definition of musical skill. There seems to be no clear definition of "Musical talent" in this thread so here's what i think it is.

1) the ability to play in key
2) the abliity to play accurately at any tempo or meter
3) the ability to write well thought out, technically proficient music.
4) the ability to play in a wide range of styles, using a wide range of techniques

Also, if you think tool's music is simple, you aren't even listening. Tool spends a lot of time producing their albums, and everything in the album is intentional. Their music is very well thought out, and it isn't designed to be a vehicle to showcase one band members talent. You have to take tool's music as a whole and listen to the harmonic and rythmic interactions between the instruments. i'm not saying you have to like tool, but it's stupid to just shit all over some band and say they don't have "talent" even though you don't know a goddam thing about music.

[DaHanG]

Tool is complete and total shit, as I said the only thing slightly commendable is their drummer who is on crack.

dahang - I always figured that 'nu-metal' was OLD thrice kind of stuff.. haha, I just like some of thrice's older stuff, didn't want them in the same category as tool 

Nu Metal is korn and the deftones, and all those bands.

random fact: playing the shittiest/simplest riffs in goofy time signatures does not substitute for talent in any way.

That sounds like something granny would say. Either you've never picked up an instrument in your life, or you're terrible at whatever instrument you play. Being able to play in a wide range of time signatures is part of the definition of musical skill. There seems to be no clear definition of "Musical talent" in this thread so here's what i think it is.

1) the ability to play in key
2) the abliity to play accurately at any tempo or meter
3) the ability to write well thought out, technically proficient music.
4) the ability to play in a wide range of styles, using a wide range of techniques

Also, if you think tool's music is simple, you aren't even listening. Tool spends a lot of time producing their albums, and everything in the album is intentional. Their music is very well thought out, and it isn't designed to be a vehicle to showcase one band members talent. You have to take tool's music as a whole and listen to the harmonic and rythmic interactions between the instruments. i'm not saying you have to like tool, but it's stupid to just shit all over some band and say they don't have "talent" even though you don't know a goddam thing about music.

                                                                                               
                                                                           
1) when you're downtuned and playing in this manner: 33334h6p0, key is an unfamiliar term for the group.
                                                                         33334h6p0
2) playing this accurately and timely is incredibly demanding. even the great tom delonge would agree.
3) yes, it's very technical alright. tool makes van halen, satriani, malmsteen, etc. shit themselves. theres no way any of them can pull off a 6/7 4/5 6/7 pattern...or whatever pattern tool enlightens the radio audience with.
4) Tool song: 1 minute of a seemingly endless chord/riff being played, boring the listener to death. 4-5 minutes of the same riff, now added the element of distortion while palm muting the main riff when necessary (why make a whole new riff? this one is so badass already!) and randomizing the progression of the song to fool nu-metal fans into being dazzled at the complexity. don't forget the singer's immense talent and range, going from talking to semi-yelling almost within seconds!

well, i just played a barred chord on my drop C tuned guitar with 5 counts, then 7, then 5 (all while switching from using my middle finger to index finger). i'm a musical god now.

[jägermonsta]

Tool is complete and total shit, as I said the only thing slightly commendable is their drummer who is on crack.

dahang - I always figured that 'nu-metal' was OLD thrice kind of stuff.. haha, I just like some of thrice's older stuff, didn't want them in the same category as tool 

Nu Metal is korn and the deftones, and all those bands.

random fact: playing the shittiest/simplest riffs in goofy time signatures does not substitute for talent in any way.

That sounds like something granny would say. Either you've never picked up an instrument in your life, or you're terrible at whatever instrument you play. Being able to play in a wide range of time signatures is part of the definition of musical skill. There seems to be no clear definition of "Musical talent" in this thread so here's what i think it is.

1) the ability to play in key
2) the abliity to play accurately at any tempo or meter
3) the ability to write well thought out, technically proficient music.
4) the ability to play in a wide range of styles, using a wide range of techniques

Also, if you think tool's music is simple, you aren't even listening. Tool spends a lot of time producing their albums, and everything in the album is intentional. Their music is very well thought out, and it isn't designed to be a vehicle to showcase one band members talent. You have to take tool's music as a whole and listen to the harmonic and rythmic interactions between the instruments. i'm not saying you have to like tool, but it's stupid to just shit all over some band and say they don't have "talent" even though you don't know a goddam thing about music.

                                                                                               
                                                                           
1) when you're downtuned and playing in this manner: 33334h6p0, key is an unfamiliar term for the group.
                                                                         33334h6p0
2) playing this accurately and timely is incredibly demanding. even the great tom delonge would agree.
3) yes, it's very technical alright. tool makes van halen, satriani, malmsteen, etc. shit themselves. theres no way any of them can pull off a 6/7 4/5 6/7 pattern...or whatever pattern tool enlightens the radio audience with.
4) Tool song: 1 minute of a seemingly endless chord/riff being played, boring the listener to death. 4-5 minutes of the same riff, now added the element of distortion while palm muting the main riff when necessary (why make a whole new riff? this one is so badass already!) and randomizing the progression of the song to fool nu-metal fans into being dazzled at the complexity. don't forget the singer's immense talent and range, going from talking to semi-yelling almost within seconds!

well, i just played a barred chord on my drop C tuned guitar with 5 counts, then 7, then 5 (all while switching from using my middle finger to index finger). i'm a musical god now.

[DaHanG]

tired/bored? you must have just listened to a tool song.

[jägermonsta]

tired/bored? you must have just listened to a tool song.

haha, you're relentless!  I like that.  Awesome

[DaHanG]

man, just reading up on my reply earlier...complete domination! 

[[BTF]n0ctuary]

                                                                                           
                                                                           
1) when you're downtuned and playing in this manner: 33334h6p0, key is an unfamiliar term for the group.
2) playing this accurately and timely is incredibly demanding. even the great tom delonge would agree.
3) yes, it's very technical alright. tool makes van halen, satriani, malmsteen, etc. shit themselves. theres no way any of them can pull off a 6/7 4/5 6/7 pattern...or whatever pattern tool enlightens the radio audience with.
4) Tool song: 1 minute of a seemingly endless chord/riff being played, boring the listener to death. 4-5 minutes of the same riff, now added the element of distortion while palm muting the main riff when necessary (why make a whole new riff? this one is so badass already!) and randomizing the progression of the song to fool nu-metal fans into being dazzled at the complexity. don't forget the singer's immense talent and range, going from talking to semi-yelling almost within seconds!

well, i just played a barred chord on my drop C tuned guitar with 5 counts, then 7, then 5 (all while switching from using my middle finger to index finger). i'm a musical god now.

You don't even know what you're talking about man, why don't you leave the music to the musicians.

Yngwie almost always plays straight 4/4. While i don't disagree that he's one of the greatest guitarist alive, he doesn't experiment with different rythmic patterns very much. Tool however, is the opposite. They don't shred or play fast much, but their music is much more deliberate and dynamic. Maybe you're not used to dynamics. Perhaps that's why you can't appreciate tool's music. Record yourself playing a tool song. I bet you can't even do it.

[paradisel0st]

You don't even know what you're talking about man, why don't you leave the music to the musicians.

Yngwie almost always plays straight 4/4. While i don't disagree that he's one of the greatest guitarist alive, he doesn't experiment with different rythmic patterns very much. Tool however, is the opposite. They don't shred or play fast much, but their music is much more deliberate and dynamic. Maybe you're not used to dynamics. Perhaps that's why you can't appreciate tool's music. Record yourself playing a tool song. I bet you can't even do it.

Challenge accepted. well, i take that back, a walk in the park is not a challenge. whenever i'm completely bored (no, not when i'm listening to a tool song), i shall learn and play schism, the whole way through with dahang. this is tool's most popular song, arguably, and pretty much signifies everything the band stands for. i don't want to hear "OMG YOU CAN'T PLAY PUSH IT LOZLOL!". you're going to get raped, admit it. we will post the song, and perhaps a good song to go with it (iron maiden - aces high). we should have no problem having this posted within the next few days. Unfortunately we both work for a living and can't post it immediately. There will actually be 10 - 15 minutes of time devoted to learning the song. 9 and a half to 14 and a half minutes shall be dedicated to memorization of the song and when to play what, etc. With 30 seconds dedicated to learning all of the riffs/all two of them.


Regards,

DAMNATION ZERO

 

[mezzo]

You really are awesome at argumenting. I only wish you were argumenting at something you know a little about.

Please learn how to use "Your" and "You're". It's annoying...I'm not even english and I can clearly when it's used wrongly. 

 

BTW, I was just listening to DaHanG play Schizm on Vent, he played the whole thing perfectly, after spending like 10 minutes learning and memorizing it.

[yodasmyBONG!]

P O