South Carolina Massacre, Confederate Flag Debate

[ex]

It's sad that this kind of stuff still happens.  That kid needed a hobby, a job, a girlfriend (or boyfriend ), something that would fill his time with something other than breeding hate.

I can understand being angry at a specific person, and MAYBE thinking that their race has an effect on their actions, but being so aimlessly mad, pointlessly mad to go on a fledgling killing spree against a bunch of churchie black people who honestly didn't deserve that...?  That's just sad.  I would've wanted to see him walk up in the hood and cap a few true thug n!ggers if he was really that angry at black people... you know, go after some who truly DO deserve to die... but then again, people like him are piece of shit cowards and know they would die fast in a situation like that, so they never would.

I honestly hope he gets forgotten about quick, along with all this pointless shit about the Confederate battle flag (which is NOT the true Confederate flag, btw).  I think that the symbols, statues, etc. from that era should be taken away and put in war museums where we keep other memorabilia like that, for purely historical purposes, to remember why we DON'T want to be like that again.  At the same time, I think that people should be allowed to have their own personal beliefs, like the rednecks that choose to have the battle flag up on their houses, trucks, etc.  They need to understand that they are making themselves known to be idiots, however; their beliefs may ostracize them.

[|iR|Focalor]

I think that the symbols, statues, etc. from that era should be taken away and put in war museums where we keep other memorabilia like that, for purely historical purposes, to remember why we DON'T want to be like that again.

And you call yourself a Texan? If "everything's bigger in Texas", then maybe the museums are too. So find us a place to stick this monument, will ya?



And I love how all these assholes like YOU think that Confederate memorials are in ANY WAY AT ALL comparable to hypothetical Nazi German war memorials in a fictional Germany. The Army of Virginia wasn't going around rounding up black folks on a campaign of genocide. The men who fought and died, and fought and LIVED with horrible injuries, all fought with honor, BOTH sides. They DESERVE to be remembered in their home states as brave patriots. They deserve a place in history where people don't compare them to other notorious historical military figures like Heinrich Himmler.

The monument posted above is the bas relief carving on the face of Stone Mountain in Stone Mountain, Georgia. The carving was started about 100 years ago, and even today, it's not even finished. Back in the 70's, they ran out of money to fund it and said "Fuck it, looks finished to me." And it never will be ACTUALLY finished no thanks to assholes who wanna compare the Confederate veterans of the civil war to the Nazi German SS. They make anyone who attempts to raise funds for completion of the monument look like a white-hooded racist bastard in the eyes of the public. But take a look at it now. Because it won't be too many more generations before people are so stupid and brainwashed that they'll back efforts to destroy and remove the monument.

[2d]

ex basically shat on everyone in the south rofl....... dum jackass...... anyone who hates the dukes of hazzard is no american!

  found this video in the news today, it is very interesting to listen to

<span data-s9e-mediaembed="youtube" style="display:inline-block;width:100%;max-width:640px"><span style="display:block;overflow:hidden;position:relative;padding-bottom:56.25%"><iframe allowfullscreen="" scrolling="no" style="background:url(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aDGGlckXvww/hqdefault.jpg) 50% 50% / cover;border:0;height:100%;left:0;position:absolute;width:100%" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aDGGlckXvww"></iframe></span></span><br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/aDGGlckXvww" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/aDGGlckXvww</a>

[ex]

I think that the symbols, statues, etc. from that era should be taken away and put in war museums where we keep other memorabilia like that, for purely historical purposes, to remember why we DON'T want to be like that again.

And you call yourself a Texan? If "everything's bigger in Texas", then maybe the museums are too. So find us a place to stick this monument, will ya?



And I love how all these assholes like YOU think that Confederate memorials are in ANY WAY AT ALL comparable to hypothetical Nazi German war memorials in a fictional Germany. The Army of Virginia wasn't going around rounding up black folks on a campaign of genocide. The men who fought and died, and fought and LIVED with horrible injuries, all fought with honor, BOTH sides. They DESERVE to be remembered in their home states as brave patriots. They deserve a place in history where people don't compare them to other notorious historical military figures like Heinrich Himmler.

The monument posted above is the bas relief carving on the face of Stone Mountain in Stone Mountain, Georgia. The carving was started about 100 years ago, and even today, it's not even finished. Back in the 70's, they ran out of money to fund it and said "Fuck it, looks finished to me." And it never will be ACTUALLY finished no thanks to assholes who wanna compare the Confederate veterans of the civil war to the Nazi German SS. They make anyone who attempts to raise funds for completion of the monument look like a white-hooded racist bastard in the eyes of the public. But take a look at it now. Because it won't be too many more generations before people are so stupid and brainwashed that they'll back efforts to destroy and remove the monument.

I think the point is being missed in what I was saying.  Sorry that it seemed I was equating Nazism to the Ole South.  To be fair, quite a bit of my family moved here from Europe after the Civil War era (WW1 was the major movement precursor for many in my bloodline), so I might not have as big a stake in the Confederacy issue as others who have had 6+ generations in the original Southern war areas.  Then again, some of my family has been here for a while (my father's side is American Indian who fought against Custer at the Battle of Little Big Horn), so I might have some ancestors along the way that I don't know about on the Confederate side.

The point I was trying to make is that in nowadays America, the union of the United States of America, it doesn't really make logical sense to have things that are reminders of the separation of the U.S., when it was two completely different countries, when the North and South were in a hard-core war of ideals against each other, and what those ideals stood for.  While it may not be equivalent to the mass genocide of the Nazis, to say that there wasn't a pretty clear racial component to the separation of the U.S. is not being intellectually honest, and to downplay that reasoning because of patriotism (to which country?  The now-defunct Confederate States of America?) is skewing the issue in a tangent that presents an argument that there are really still two countries, the northern Union of the U.S. and the Confederate States of America.  The problem is that there are clearly not two countries anymore, and while the war memories and horrible atrocities that happened in those times were indeed horrible, and we should remember those soldiers who fought with honor for their country, the issue comes to a head when you have to figure out which country those soldiers fought for.  Unfortunately, if your ancestors fought for the Confederate States of America, it is quite hard to justify honoring those soldiers as equals to soldiers in the northern Union States.  While both sides fought with honor and valor, only one side was fighting for bringing the U.S. back together again, and fighting for integration of races, cultures, creeds, and peoples.  So unfortunately, while I understand the pain and suffering the Confederate soldiers endured fighting for their country (Confederate U.S.A.), they simply cannot be honored in the same fashion alongside soldiers fighting for the Union of the U.S.A.  In their home states, they should be remembered as brave fighters of the Confederacy, but it should also be noted that we now all agree, as a nation, that they were unfortunately fighting for the wrong side, as was proven when Generals Lee and Grant came together to end the war, which they both agreed was pointless in the end (they both were noted as saying they wouldn't have even gone to war, had they been shown beforehand the agreement Lincoln presented to them, once the war was over).

Actually, I realized I just went off on a little bit of a tangent myself, albeit an important one.  The original point I was making is that the monuments, statues, relics of that era should be museum pieces.  Maybe not alongside Nazi memorabilia; perhaps they should have their own Confederate war museums, so that people don't feel like it's being equated to other wars with different meanings involved.

I will say one thing - the mountain is fine.  Some exceptions to the rule can be made.  If something is that big and incomplete as well, then it isn't specifically offensive as the incomplete nature of the carving offends incompletely, therefore it is neither here nor there in my mind.

[2d]

ex, the truth is, if the confederates won, you would still be an ignorant malignant jackass, a jackass that would own slaves.

you lack the intelligence to escape  your environment, and i am confident that you would exist in an altered reality, a confederate usa, as a down trodden mule that would rape black women whilst drunken on moonshine and high on cocaine.

you lack the morality necessary to state anything, even if what you state has a smidgen of truth to it.

you are eternally owned, a nose dropping floating in the midst of a humanity lost and searching for its soul.

  

[|iR|Focalor]

If the Confederacy had won, slavery would've still been abolished you fucking moron.

Just like if you start a thread with the intention of having a serious discussion about something, you're still always gonna trash the thread and spew useless shit from your lips at some point.

Fuck you.

[Sgt. Dick]

ex, the truth is, you would still be an ignorant malignant jackass.

2d making a comment like that is   

If I just saw those words being said, I would think someone was talking about 2d.

[|iR|Focalor]

The only reason people talk about 2dum at all is because he occasionally posts the most stupid shit imaginable here. Other than that, he's entirely unremarkable and completely forgettable. Attention whores must keep themselves relevant.

It's on me for being suckered into posting in this thread at all. Stupid me thought that 2dum could possess the ability to have a NORMAL conversation for once in his life without going full retard. And also not to mention, uh... The Confederate flag has as much to do with some fucked up teenager shooting a bunch of folks in South Carolina as the Doom video game had to do with a couple of fucked up teenagers shooting up a school in Colorado.

Therefore, 2dum talking about this shooting and the Confederate flag in the same breath should be considered pure flamebait, just like it was pure clickbait and ratings booster for all the media outlets pimping the angle to stir controversy. It's pretty fucked up that when this country was founded, it was print media that helped unite the people together by telling them the truth. These days, media in it's many forms seems to have a fucking boner for dividing people as much as possible.

[Whirlingdervish]

in our current intentionally polarized state as a society, divisiveness sells.

[2d]

It's on me for being suckered into posting in this thread at all. Stupid me thought that 2dum could possess the ability to have a NORMAL conversation for once in his life without going full retard.

R O F L !!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

If the Confederacy had won, slavery would've still been abolished you fucking moron.

I cannot agree with this statement.....

I do not think anyone can......

what on earth makes you think if the confederates won, that slavery would be abolished?

they were fighting to keep their economic system and way of life intact. the economic system was wholly dependent on slavery

[quadz]

I cannot agree with this statement.....

I do not think anyone can......

what on earth makes you think if the confederates won, that slavery would be abolished?

Of course it would have ended, you preening buffoon.

Spend two minutes googling the timeline of when slavery ended in country after country. Sea change, sweeping tide, domino effect, whatever you want to call it, slavery was on its way out.

How many more decades could slavery have endured in the Confederate South? Anyone's guess, but I doubt beyond the early decades of the 20th century. They would have increasingly become a pariah state. Trade sanctions would have been enacted, possibly naval blockades eventually. (Britain's navy spent much of the 1800's putting a stop to the slave trade.)

If the South didn't manage to divest itself of slavery by its own accord, it would have surely been pressured into it economically.

etc.

[Whirlingdervish]

Agriculture does not depend on slavery, nor did any other part of their economy.

All told, the cost savings angle of slavery is very overplayed as a justification for it. Even if you were to pay farm laborers back then, you would not pay them enough to live on, just like people do now.

[Th0m@s29]

Hard to Argue But I Think Like op Said THE STATE should Have A Traditional Democratic Voting And Where Ever the Chips Fall May the Shit Storm Rain Down ON IT!! HAHA!

[|iR|Focalor]

Who cares, booger eater.

[2d]

Of course it would have ended, you preening buffoon.

that is one of the most optimistic viewpoints ever written.

yet sadly, we still have slavery today....

i dont think one can implant a future into an altered reality. world history would have changed dramatically. new wars would have existed, world war I and II, hitler, japan, all rewritten.

the civil war was fought from 1861 to 1865... 7
i found a quick recap with huffpost regarding how the states and the presidency viewed the issue of slavery:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/civil-war-slavery_n_7639988.html

Within this post i will paste both the vice prez and the prez's thoughts....... rofl...


Alexander Stephens, vice president of the Confederacy, said the Southern states would fight to keep “the negro” in “his place” in a hard-to-misread statement on the day the Civil War began:

"Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature’s laws. With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system. The architect, in the construction of buildings, lays the foundation with the proper material -- the granite; then comes the brick or the marble. The substratum of our society is made of the material fitted by nature for it, and by experience we know that it is best, not only for the superior, but for the inferior race, that it should be so. It is, indeed, in conformity with the ordinance of the Creator. It is not for us to inquire into the wisdom of His ordinances, or to question them. For His own purposes, He has made one race to differ from another, as He has made “one star to differ from another star in glory. The great objects of humanity are best attained when there is conformity to His laws and decrees, in the formation of governments as well as in all things else. Our confederacy is founded upon principles in strict conformity with these laws."

Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederacy, cited slavery as the reason for going to war in 1861 and rallied in its defense until his death in 1889. His take on the Emancipation Proclamation, reiterated in his memoirs, is quite telling:

"A proclamation, dated on January 1, 1863, signed and issued by the President of the United States, orders and declares all slaves within ten of the States of the Confederacy to be free, except such as are found in certain districts now occupied in part by the armed forces of the enemy. We may well leave it to the instinct of that common humanity, which a beneficent Creator has implanted in the breasts of our fellow-men of all countries, to pass judgment on a measure by which several millions of human beings of an inferior race -- peaceful, contented laborers in their sphere -- are doomed to extermination, while at the same time they are encouraged to a general assassination of their masters by the insidious recommendation "to abstain from violence, unless in necessary self-defense."

these guys honestly believed that it was ordained by god to have the negro in chains and subjugated to the whims of the white man.
 
rofl..

if these guys would have won, it would only have cemented their belief in this divine right. they would have grown bolder and more brutal. csa never declared any intention or event  or even the slightest hint at attributing the negro with any rights or any future.

for slavery to end with the csa, the csa itself would need to come to an end.

also, for me to state that ex would have been a confederate criminal does not in any way demean the history or heritage of the people of the south who support their ancestors, who fought to defend themselves against an invading army from a thousand miles away trying to tell them what to do...

ex exists today as a snake, and he would exist  a snake in an altered reality

perhaps quadz is right, that slavery would have ended eventually, but i would disagree with the timeline. if the confederates won, i would guarantee at least 100 years of slavery, assuming russia or germany didnt conquer csa first