South Carolina Massacre, Confederate Flag Debate

[2d]

So we all are aware of the young man who entered the church and decided to kill as many black people as he could. Obviously, the young man has issues, and my heart goes out to all those friendly loving folk who lost their loved ones.

Along side the massacre however, is the roaring debate now over the display of the confederate flag on state buildings, license plates and so forth. The governor of south carolina publicly announced her support for removing the confederate flag from the capitol building. Many senators and other governors from other states have come out in support and have interestingly made their own feelings known.

I just read a local article, and from my past incursions with mr man, focalor, i am somewhat torn. Focalor persuaded me to see the confederate flag from the other side, and how it wasnt just a symbol to hate. There really is a lot of history and a lot of depth to that flag.

I guess i am for the most part ticked off that politicians are riding whatever wave of current public opinion to suit their own interests. Should the flag go? Does the flag deserve the scrutiny its receiving because some young idiot decided to shoot up a church?

I honestly dont know. I used to watch the dukes of hazzard alot with my parents when i was younger. Looking at the general lee, i always admired the way that neat flag covered its skin. But as an adult, learning how that flag was used and for what it wanted the nation to be, shed a different light.

I think the Stars and Stripes should always fly high first and foremost, and if residents of that state want a smaller confederate flag and vote democratically to do so, i have no problem with it.


Anyway i thought id make this thread for anyone who wanted to express any opinions on the matter, since this is the major news story of the moment..

Heres a link to the news article showing what different states are thinking about doing:

http://abc7news.com/politics/which-states-are-reconsidering-the-confederate-flag/801146/






feel free to chime in

[Sgt. Dick]

I think they should ban all episodes of Dukes of Hazard and destroy their tapes.  That show had what some people see as a racist symbol, so we should do everything we can to erase it from history.

[|iR|Focalor]

In any case where the flag becomes the subject, the question should be what it's used to represent. When the Klan and neo-nazi skinhead groups display it, obviously it's used to represent racial hatred. When the Sons of Confederate Veterans stick flags on each and every gravestone in the Civil War era cemetery in Stone Mountain GA, which also happens to be the re-birth place of the 2nd generation Ku Klux Klan, it's not being used to represent anything other than a devotion to historical preservation and remembrance of Southern heritage.

Just like the swastika. The Nazi party in Germany did not invent the swastika. EVERY swastika symbol you see does not ALWAYS stand for the principles and policies that the Nazi party gave it. But when a racist-as-fuck skinhead has a patch on his bomber jacket shoulder with a swastika... you can assume the intended meaning of it has nothing to do with Buddhism or Hinduism.

You know all about how I feel about the Confederate Stars and Bars. Even so, when the civil rights movement was taking place in the 50's and 60's, only THEN did several states from the South decide to begin including the Confederate Stars and Bars on their state flags. Some could say the timing was merely coincidental. I'm not dumb enough to buy that, and I have no problem admitting it while also saying that I love the Confederate flag.

The Confederate flag represents things other than racial hatred. If the Confederate flag is inherently racist, then so is the American flag. Do you honestly think that everyone in the North gave a shit about the plight of the enslaved black man? No, they didn't. In fact, violent acts against blacks happened in the North as well as the South. It's well know that blacks who were veterans of the Civil War and fought for the North were lynched in random riots by their Yankee neighbors shortly after the war ended. Google the figures of how many were killed and seriously wounded during the Civil War. Do you really think that THAT MANY whites, Yankee OR Rebel, would've willingly laid down their lives ONLY because the main goal was to free the black man from slavery? Hell no. No white man was going to give up his life for the sake of a black man he looked down upon. Plenty of people in the North were racist too. The yankees simply fought for the pay they got a lot of the time. They couldn't have cared less what the black man was subject to. They were fighting for the honor of being a soldier, for the pay, for their loved ones back home, and for the man next to them just like any good soldier. The Southerners fought for the same reasons. But they were also fighting for independence from a government they saw as being much like the rule of the British over the colonies back in the 1770's, absentee overlords trying to enforce things on them when they weren't even residents of the region and had no idea what life was really like there.

Personally, I think that because what the flag ACTUALLY represents is a time when the Southern states rebelled against the rule of the US federal government located in the Northern states, it probably should not be displayed on any flag poles outside of any government buildings. However, I think we're all aware that the Civil War is in fact OVER... so I don't think anyone is going to be confused and think that the state in question is actively engaging in rebellion against the US government. So it should be left up to the people of THAT STATE and THAT STATE ONLY as to whether or not they choose to remember their heritage by displaying it.

And Dylan Roof probably has no ancestors who fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy. So fuck him. Speaking of which... I think he will get plenty of fucking where he's undoubtedly heading for the rest of his life.

[Golgo13]

i don't see the point in displaying the confederate flag on state buildings. so yea i agree with some of these comments. if someone wants to keep it in their home or outside of their home, that's their business. Let the person who flies it take the burden.

[|iR|Focalor]

That's what I'm saying though, I think the intention several of the southern states (such as Georgia) had when they changed their state flags to include the Confederate battle flag back in the 50's and 60's was to thumb their nose at the civil rights movement. And Georgia has since removed the Confederate battle flag from the state flag. But what they replaced it with really isn't much different to anyone who knows their civil war history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

Very top of the page, right side. Add a 3-column archway (the Georgia state seal) to the center of the circle of stars, and you have the current Georgia state flag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state)

Fine by me. Fine by everyone else too. But a lot of people would probably be pitching a royal running shit fit if they knew that they petitioned the shit out of state legislature for years to remove the Confederate X only to have it replaced by another Confederate flag. But like I said, you see skinheads and klansmen waving the Confederate battle flag at their rallies as a symbol of hatred. You don't see the klan (what's left of it) waving THIS flag around, and a lot of THEM don't know jack shit about the many other flags used by the Confederacy either. Buncha dopes.

[Golgo13]

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/guests/andrew-napolitano/rwhsc9/andrew-napolitano

[2d]

That video of the judge was spot on. Clinton should not be advocating for the extinction of the flag and the banishment of it from commerce.

I think people have the right to fly whatever symbol they want.

I think government should fly the national flag, and whatever state flag has been voted on.

[Whirlingdervish]

is there nothing you will not use as a soapbox to stand on during your attention getting charades?

Just fuck off already.

[|iR|Focalor]

is there nothing you will not use as a soapbox to stand on during your attention getting charades?

Yeah. The principles of a working class WHITE man.

See, I was doing good for a couple posts there. All the racism just got built up and exploded outta me like racist blueballs.

God damn. They're gonna take my damn flag for that one, ain't they? Motherffffffffff. Sie.

[2d]

dervish just wants a silent forum

not sure why

nothing in this thread really offended anyone, we talked about a current issue

why the butt hurt

 

[Golgo13]

For someone that just murdered 9 people, he got treated with al-la card of captures... Hungry lil fella? let 's go have a burger..


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[adz1La]

2 times for dixie brah

[2d]

THEY BANNED THE DUKES OF HAZZARD ON TV!


What in the fuck!?



Cooter: Cancellation of 'Hazzard' Reruns Is Like 'Nazis Burning Books'

Former "Dukes of Hazzard" actor Ben "Cooter" Jones lambasted TV Land this morning after the network canceled reruns of the iconic program.

The network did not explain why it nixed the twice-a-day reruns of the 1980s series.

But the show has recently been called out for its depiction of the Confederate flag, which is prominently displayed on the roof of the General Lee.

Jones said the controversy over the Confederate flag has gone too far, noting that people of all ethnicities "loved" the show.

He called out "sanctimonious left-wing special interests" for driving the decision by Viacom, which owns TV Land.

Jones argued that Viacom has broadcast "some of the sleaziest trash" on TV over the years, including reality shows like "Jersey Shore."

"This is like the book burning in Nazi Germany or something. This sweeping cultural cleansing that they're doing. It's got to stop," he said.

Jones directed supporters to the Cooter's Place Facebook page to sign a petition asking Viacom to reverse its decision.

Last week, Jones made a forceful defense of the Confederate flag on "Fox and Friends," saying the vast majority of people who fly the flag are not racists.


http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/07/02/ben-cooter-jones-cancellation-dukes-hazzard-reruns-nazis-burning-books

Watch the full interview above.



This is insanity, and its fucked, its one of my favorite shows ever. And it goes to focalors point that the flag has different contexts. Ruined my day

https://www.change.org/p/viacom-warner-brothers-walmart-ebay-stop-banning-dukes-of-hazzard?recruiter=111524680&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_facebook_responsive&utm_term=des-lg-action_alert-custom_msg

i signed it!

[[BTF]Sigma]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

FFS how ridiculous.

[Golgo13]

This is insanity, and its fucked, its one of my favorite shows ever.

That was my favorite show when i was like 5, why would someone still watch that? sounds like sarcasm. that was some boring shit.