Welcome to Weapons of Destruction!

[peewee_RotA]

Oh, and that's another thing that ruins a server. All the idiotic newbs who think that everyone who can aim more than a 1% rail accuracy is OBVIOUSLY using an aimbot.

Patently false.

New players who are not constantly yelling "my dad can beat up your dad" in smacktalk make the game a lot of fun. I'm considering jumping into these servers a bunch this week for this reason. The chance to just turn off the competitiveness and relax is awesome. I encourage people like Fader to maintain his current position. It will keep the playerbase the way it is now. People who actually have FUN!

[bluemeanies]

If AC works for others, then good for them! I'm not saying they should stop using it, if it in fact does something for them. I just think if you're going to cheat in 2012 with so few players, you're an idiot.
But, lets drop this whole thing here, right now. I'm not getting into this whole anti-cheat discussion again, cause it's pointless. Lets just say I don't care about AC, for all the false positives. I only got on the band wagon thinking it'd make my life easier. Once it stopped being updated, it stopped being relevant, or effective rather, just like with any discontinued anti virus program, cause it doesn't stop anyone who gets their hands on a new hack from getting through. It doesn't take much for others to download a copy. I think most people can all agree its hard to stop it from spreading after that. We even tested this theory with some shitty bot script, that shot for us, and wasn't detected. There's an old thread about it somewhere. I don't think anyone wants me to post the proof, unless they want to degrade AC even more. I'll be happy to submit it to r1ch once he resumes work on it. If other admins choose to use AC, that's fine, but unless it's updated again, and made to work with a mac, I'll pass. The best anti cheat is and will always be an observant server admin!
Case closed.

...where's the proof? how come no one can provide any real solid evidence that someone with valid ac is using an undetected cheat? I've never seen it and I don't think any of the people who know what they are doing as far as server admins or our more experienced bot sleuths have either. if razor could really provide these valid cheats they would be readily available and we would know about them. he would be crowing from the rooftops if he could stick it to tastyspleen or any of the other many places he's been banned from. please feel free to provide proof of someone passing ac using a real hack on any of the tastyspleen servers that quadz manages, even if it's only in private to quadz or other admins. that kind of information would be very valuable to the community.

...I'm not trying to stir shit up because I like WODX and used to play quite a bit a few years ago. however, that server was one of the last places that I used to actually see cheats fairly regularly. to be fair, that was several years ago and I haven't seen any cheaters in there when I have played, which is probably only once a month or so

...on another note, I've always had a good experience on WODX and have never had an issue with excessive hack accusations even though I'm not a regular player and usually end up at the top in maps. hack accusations are not unusual in public ffa servers and for the most part should just be ignored

thank you.

...you'll take anyone questioning ac and swing from their nuts wont you?...I know your still mad that rich just ignored your sorry ass when you wanted help with your server...since your mom is the only one that plays with you on GAYGO CTF why do you care about AC...or since she kicks your ass too are you worried about her hacking?

[quadz]

...where's the proof? how come no one can provide any real solid evidence that someone with valid ac is using an undetected cheat? I've never seen it and I don't think any of the people who know what they are doing as far as server admins or our more experienced bot sleuths have either. if razor could really provide these valid cheats they would be readily available and we would know about them. he would be crowing from the rooftops if he could stick it to tastyspleen or any of the other many places he's been banned from. please feel free to provide proof of someone passing ac using a real hack on any of the tastyspleen servers that quadz manages, even if it's only in private to quadz or other admins. that kind of information would be very valuable to the community.

1. It has always been trivial to create a new variation on a bot that appears to be undetected by anticheat.  (The downside is, I think this is as far as a lot of admins and curious players get.  They try something that "isn't detected" and conclude OMG! AC doesn't werk!)

2. It's much less trivial to create a new variation on a bot whose fingerprint isn't being logged to r1ch's AC servers.  Generally, bots that show as 'valid' are still being logged.  When the new bot is detected by admins (by the usual means like speccing or watching a demo) then r1ch is able to (a) block the bot; and (b) there's a retroactive log on his servers of everyone who ever played with that bot while using AC in the past.  (The latter was always particularly satisfying, to catch players forensically who previously thought they were getting away with a "valid" bot.)

3. ruiner is correct that if r1ch has moved on, and is no longer willing or able to perform the maintenance required to add new bots to the block list, then it's true that AC would be increasingly less useful.  (The forensic evidence in r1ch's logs would still exist, but it would just be piling up, ignored.)

4. Note that another misconception is that anticheat.dll itself has to be updated to block new bots; generally this is not the case.  (Some admins or players may look at the file date on anticheat.dll and think, this hasn't been updated in years! But that file generally doesn't need to be updated for new bots to be blocked.)

5. If r1ch has lost interest in Q2 and moved on, then the entire AC system may stop functioning at some point.  However, personally I'm glad it's still operating, as it continutes to be a useful tool.


Regards,

quadz

[r1]

If idiots and retarded script kiddies like razor or whoever, can create undetectable variations, just think what a skilled coder can do.
Lets say the 99% of the dumb shits trying to cheat get stopped, but it's unnerving that even the 1% that that gets through is now exonerated and gets exclusive cheating rights.
There's something very dangerous about a less then full proof software alone deciding and establishing the players validity and credibility.
They now feel impervious and part of some elitist club, they snuck in to, and it also makes them think they can toy with administrators,
who have to keep giving them the benefit of the doubt. Another thing that I found annoying about it, was all the false positives.
For example: there were instances, were I too would get kicked from my own server and not even be playing. I was just in the spectator mode. If there's some way of tweaking it to stop
doing that, I'd like to hear about it. In the end I just found it too much hassle for what it was worth, because well trained eyes will still spot infiltrators better then any AC.


But with all due respect, and as much as I'd like to entertain this whole discussion about AC. It's off topic.
Last time I checked this thread was called Welcome to Weapons of Destruction and not Welcome to the Jungle.
I'm glad AC is still useful to some, great... I'm not stopping anyone, you have my blessing!
I just can't give something that's slowly decaying a clean bill of health anymore.
If you want to talk about this, try the r1ch.net, but you'll quickly find "Important News (2006-09-04) r1ch.net anticheat"
Do I need to say more?

[killerhrtz]

Hey guys, just stopping by to check in. Forum looks nice, and thanks for putting wod here! I'll be seeing yall from time to time on whales. I just got a better connection and finally dropped dailup, if only att would quit pissing away our tax dollars from the broadband stimulus to deploy dsl and hurry up and bring it here in my community would make me feel even better.

[r1]

Hi Killerhrtz!

 

Glad you could make it, and great that finally you can tap into the right bandwidth.
Don't mind the above mumbo jumbo that has nothing to do with this thread, it'll soon pass. As promised I intend to create a place free from politics, and vindictive interpersonal struggles. Sometimes it just happens that it gets sidetracked and dragged through mud by a few bad apples, who hate to see something pure grow. I want a place free from all that, where we all can just engage in some carefree and constructive discussions and show a bit of love for the game. We all have to deal with enough drama in our daily lives, and we don't need another place like that! Weapons of Destruction is all about re-leaving stress! Let's leave the destructive part on the battlefield, while fostering a carefree creative environment over here. I'm sure it'll soon become clear who's here for all the wrong reasons!

Cheers,
~R

[Naked Guy]

ok i'm here.  now what?

[IronBalls]

Hi Ruins.......Great server and  > Thanks for all your work over the years contibuting to the game........

I had to laugh....................

The only problem with your awesome server is this dickhead named "poser" who aliases on several aliases always talking shit to me. 

so it wasnt just me.......AHHHAHAHAHAH......

[|iR|Focalor]

Lotta shits been said, and I take it you don't want to see some of the points people are making, whether they're doing it respectfully or not-so-respectfully.

But let me say this... If you're gonna publicly declare that AC will not be in use on your server whatsoever, then be prepared to have a larger number of cheaters than usual. They'll see that as a green light to use whatever they want. Whereas AC would've caught the vast majority of hacks that someone could download by a quick search of yahoo or google, now there will be NOTHING stopping those most common of all hacks from connecting. AC would spot them and block the IP from reconnecting. Without it, you'll have to physically BE ON THE SERVER, be in spec mode, watch them a couple minutes to see them cheating, then take the time to ban them, etc etc. Just more work. No, AC ain't gonna be an omnipotent program that does EVERYTHING, but you can't deny that it's a great tool and it's MUCH better than nothing at all. Like how you compared it to an antivirus program. Even an old antivirus is better than NO antivirus, because at least it will recognize and quarantine the shit it's already got in the definition database. How dumb would you feel for getting a pre-2000 virus because you deleted your outdated AV program?

[r1]

 

BTW, as far as I know AC is still running on our servers. If it makes you all sleep at night knowing its there, even though some of you don't even play there, I'll keep it. Please stay on topic though.

Thank you.

[NIN-IceFox]

Lotta shits been said, and I take it you don't want to see some of the points people are making, whether they're doing it respectfully or not-so-respectfully.

But let me say this... If you're gonna publicly declare that AC will not be in use on your server whatsoever, then be prepared to have a larger number of cheaters than usual. They'll see that as a green light to use whatever they want. Whereas AC would've caught the vast majority of hacks that someone could download by a quick search of yahoo or google, now there will be NOTHING stopping those most common of all hacks from connecting. AC would spot them and block the IP from reconnecting. Without it, you'll have to physically BE ON THE SERVER, be in spec mode, watch them a couple minutes to see them cheating, then take the time to ban them, etc etc. Just more work. No, AC ain't gonna be an omnipotent program that does EVERYTHING, but you can't deny that it's a great tool and it's MUCH better than nothing at all. Like how you compared it to an antivirus program. Even an old antivirus is better than NO antivirus, because at least it will recognize and quarantine the shit it's already got in the definition database. How dumb would you feel for getting a pre-2000 virus because you deleted your outdated AV program?

I do in fact agree with a fair bit of your points which you have sincerely and respectably put forth and it's welcomed, I have consulted with ruiner and I do in fact vouch for keeping AC and that is what we are doing, it is better than nothing after all and helps in most cases as a little extra insurance should the rare occasion of someone being a little suspicious pops up. On top of this our veteran and very skilled players are very aware of the play-styles of others and if anything is amiss they do lets us know and we investigate. In the end the procedure is still the same, visual evidence is always key and a good demo tells a lot. But AC will not be removed from the server in any case.

Now I welcome all who have further joined here, it's a little slow going to get things populated here but we are getting there and are striving to renew and protect the integrity of the gaming experiences we offer! Nothings perfect but we are working on it!

[r1]

Hi Ruins.......Great server and  > Thanks for all your work over the years contibuting to the game........

I had to laugh....................

The only problem with your awesome server is this dickhead named "poser" who aliases on several aliases always talking shit to me. 

so it wasnt just me.......AHHHAHAHAHAH......

Hey Iron,
I see you found this forum 
I don't know what is the big deal about "poser". From what everyone says he's supposed to be some huge jerk.
He doesn't seem all that bad when I'm around? 
I'm sure he'll get here eventually and explain.

 

[peewee_RotA]

Played a bit tonight. Actually got a chainsaw kill and a direct lightning grenade.

[NIN-IceFox]

Played a bit tonight. Actually got a chainsaw kill and a direct lightning grenade.

Welcome peewee_RotA! I have to say I loved your Quake 2 64 maps I put them all on and they are among the greatest of fun maps when the gameplay gets wild! I used to play the 64 Quake 2 long ago during my console days! Brings back memories!

[RailWolf]