Author Topic: Hello, I must be going  (Read 33697 times)

Offline Io

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2006, 08:05:43 AM »
Anyone else with legitimate concerns?

How the fuck can I keep you in my sights long enough to kill ya? :rocketright:

Tell me Please ..  :bananaw00t:
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Offline applejacks

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2006, 09:55:18 AM »
Hi grind nice to see you on the forums, ive played against you for many of years on other servers. i never use the same name so you prob have no idea who i am.
anyhow i never thought you were cheating, i get the same crap myself all the time, too much private messages in game and what not just telling me to $## off or whatever hhehe it just gets to the point where its disgusting to even play. I did quit for a while, just recently started to play again , sure i get the same lame messages and bitches from the same people, but thats just what they do :)
But im just dumping more money  into my Z now instead of building a new computer. i play quake on an old box or laptop now days :)
Good luck
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Offline harryhood

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2006, 11:32:07 AM »
LOL  AX2GRIND LOL LOL LOLL LOLLOLOZLRLOZRLLKJFKD  Best feeling-string cheese incident - On The Road 04/24/02
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Offline haunted

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2006, 11:47:12 AM »

   [EDIT: When I first read the logs, I thought you were
   reacting to your 0.0 score being deleted.  I'm wondering
   now if all your scores for that map were deleted.  I see
   in the log data at the very top, that haunted appears to
   have accidentally removed all of your scores, when he
   thought he was removing only the top score?

   

Quadz: I made a mistake, I accidently deleted everyones top score who had played that map, NOT just ax2grind's top score. Also, i do not consider this a severe mistake being that the jump server was just set up and that map hasn't been played much. I am sorry for any inconviences because of it though.

A2G:

Quote
Haunted would've known this had he actually entered the map and looked at the demo, which showed me moving exactly as I did to attain a legitimate score.  He didn't bother, and that was exactly the opposite direction someone with admin powers should've taken.

Your argument is disingenuous at best.  It's impossible to delete the time (for me) unless i am on that actual map.  2 days before our conversation, I was there and as you can see from the condump It wasnt only me that was wondering how you got the 0.0 so I asked you. Oh, and i DID look at the replay if you look at the condump. It showed a time of 23 seconds (8th place) which was very odd as well. (There were a bunch of 13-14 second times after your 0.0.

Quote
My responses to his statements, whatever they were, were justified: his tone was accusatory (I'll ask you for a third time, how did you get 0.0 on that map - having already deleted the score and been told by another player the actual cause, yet persisting)

Me stating that it's the third time that i've asked you something does not make it an accusation, it just means that you haven't bothered to answer my question yet. You could have avoided this by a) not flipping out / b) simply answering my question.

Quote
Haunted: I read your statements in several threads, including the one you're accused of cheating and, instead, mention my name.  That is something, I can proudly say, I've never done: used someone else's actions in defense of accusations to me.  It smacks of Outbreak (assuming you're not) and doesn't befit an admin, please stop

Just to clarify something for everyone, that when he says several that = TWO threads that I've ever mentioned his name.  I did not use your actions in ANY sort of way in defense of accusations towards me. Also, I am NOT the one who mentioned you, it was panjoo. Being a member of this q2 community I have every right to voice my oppinion if it is relating to the content on the tread. Debating on whether someone is cheating or not is a common thing.  As plastik said in an earlier post on this thread: "you have the freedom to make what you want out of what i say." People have the freedom to make what they want of my posts as well, and I have the freedom to post on any topic I want if my post is relevant.  I would really expect that someone as "oldschool" as you are to understand this, and then disregard them if they were false.

Most of the things you said in reference to me were not true.  I could get mad over this, but I don't because I dont really care, you should try it.  Also, I will not "formally apologize" ax. You demanding for apologies before you come back to the server truly defines the word bitch. I have NEVER felt any ill feelings for you, and I think you really need to chill out.

Oh and I know i was wrong about the aimbot and I dont care. The slowmo was very deceiving.

Also, I've never abused my admin powers on the jump server, and I never intend to either.


Best wishes for you ax and i hope you come back to jump.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2006, 12:51:04 PM by haunted »
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Offline [BTF]Defiant!

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2006, 12:38:04 PM »
Ax,

Good to hear from you.  I'm sure it is frustrating to discover a forum thread which refers to cheating accusations against you.  I do NOT think you are cheating, but I think it is worthwhile to consider peoples accusations if they are made in good faith. 

The Q2 community is small.  People lose faith if they think people are cheating.  I certainly hope that anyone reading the forum understands this.  Definitely you are not unique in receiving these accusations.  If people act with maturity, everyone is satisfied and we can move on.

You are great competition.  I feel it is an accomplishment to come away with a FFA win on a DM map with you.  I hope you play in the tourney too.

cheers,
Def
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Offline naymlis

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2006, 02:09:08 PM »
 :bigcry:
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Offline Om3ga

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2006, 03:38:19 PM »
axgrind, i remembered you flamed at me for being "invisible", well i just wanna say that the custom skins had an bug, and think b4 you act man!
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Offline Ax2Grind

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2006, 09:42:02 PM »
When I stated I'm not returning to Jumpmod without an apology I wasn't writing for the sake of reading my own words.
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If I repeat myself it's because people didn't read what I typed before or claim I didn't say it in the first place.
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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2006, 07:55:57 AM »
Everyone who can beat me cheats. I think I solved all the problems now.

 :busted:

I'm just amazed at the reaction of AxG...why do you care that much? I'm not even good and I've been accused of cheating countless times. If you are good you should be used to it by now. I have to admit that when I saw a demo of you and the rail fires like 30 degrees on the right to hit someone I was a 100% sure you were cheating. Then someone explained that this can happen in demos and it doesnt mean you cheated. Do I know the truth about you cheating...no....do I care...no.

I must admit that I find a little drama amusing and that's why I was reading.  :twisted:

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Offline The Dreaming Dragon

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2006, 08:34:26 AM »
Haw!

On those rare good days when Chaos smiles on me and I blow up others more often than myself,even I get accused of being a bot!

And on the invisibility bug,I notice it when my soundpack becomes that of the Male model instead of the unique one I have in the Fun folder.Typing Kill once will fix it,and most people will comply if you point it out to them.And if they are using the Male model anyway,most may NOT notice it until you tell them.Otherwise you just have to keep an eye peeled for their shots appearing out of thin air which is how I usually track them.
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Offline console

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2006, 11:16:20 AM »
When I stated I'm not returning to Jumpmod without an apology I wasn't writing for the sake of reading my own words.

Didn't haunted and I both already apologize for the accidental deletion of the map scores?  :-[

I'm also aware certain types of people never realize what they're saying, or the way they're saying it, have certain meaning.

You're absolutely sure you could never make this mistake yourself?  :evilgrin:

Everyone here looks at the words, I look at the circumstance.  You could've asked that question in so many completely different ways, but instead continued to provoke with the way you did.

Wow, only you and you alone can do more than "look at the words"?

. . . Continued to provoke?  "how did u get 0.0 on gxjump1 ax?"  Slings and arrows, indeed!    :heart:

The tell-tale issue is someone else told you, so if you were only looking for an answer you would've asked Lord as to what kind of bug could do such: you didn't.

The morning this occurred, haunted told me he was specifically interested in your answer because based on your level of jumping skill, you were most likely to actually know what you were talking about. (My computer's crashed since then and I don't have the IRC log, so I've had to paraphrase.  But that's what he told me.)

That, in itself, proves to me you had another motive and the way you were demanding an answer from me wouldn't have accepted an 'I don't know,' especially when you expected me to know.

What a bizarre bit of hypothetical reasoning.  You're holding someone at fault for how they might have responded to a hypothetical untrue response ('I don't know?') that only occurred in a fantasy reenactment of the dialogue?

"I'm also aware certain types of people never realize they don't have the kind of onmicient model of what's going on in other people's heads they think they do."

Funny thing is I had already told you, but you wouldn't listen, so I feel quite confident in my belief.  I tell you to get rid of RAO, you don't, and look who gets the shaft.

For the record, haunted doesn't have the admin level to "get rid of RAO".  You'll notice I got rid of it as soon as you posted the explanation of the problem here.  Thanks again for that.

The 'invisible bug' has been around for some time and if it was a server issue then why doesn't it affect other servers?  I've never seen it happen on any OSP, Jumpmod or such games.

It seems to be some interaction between the mod we use on the FFA servers, and q2admin, and/or r1q2.  I'm sure it's probably the fault of the mod itself (which I wrote, so, my bad).  I mention interactions with r1q2 server only because we didn't have the invisibility bug when we ran the mod with id's 3.21 server.  When we switched to r1q2, the invisibility thing started happening.  I've made a couple efforts to track it down but so far it's been elusive.  Again, I'm sure it's ultimately some crass mistake I made in the mod code.  Mea culpa.

For the other issues, long before TS existed I had been victimized by other servers, ones that ran admin programs that could do almost anything the owners wanted: add latency to an individual player, use messagemode under my name, and a host of other things I can't remember offhand

Hmm, pretty uncool of them.  Just FYI, we don't have any means to add latency, that I'm aware of, unless it were stuffing a really low rate value to the client or something like that.  (But we wouldn't tolerate abusive admin behavior here.)


Regards,

:afro:

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Offline M^tster

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2006, 01:24:07 PM »
Dang console is on top of things here I see.No comment from me is neccasary.  :rockon:
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Offline Ax2Grind

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Why should I care?
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2006, 04:58:01 AM »
I care because the most important thing in a game isn't having fun (you can have fun doing other things), it isn't being nice (you can be nice the rest of the day), but to observe the rules of the game, namely fair play and no cheating.  The only thing worse than cheating (or getting caught doing it) is claiming someone else is without proof (or claiming you caught them).  Reputation, or lack thereof, can make or break people, and attacking someone's reputation is the closest thing to murder in online gaming.  If everyone who's accused me of beyond-a-reasonable-doubt cheating (Haunted, for example) had his authority I'd be banned from every server still having more than two people on it a week, and that's death in any community, let alone this dying one.  Take the Mage Warehouse incident, for instance.

I had played there for a long time, but not necessarily as a regular.  I believe it was there Eelpout gave me the last real compliment I had in this game.  (This was around the time I was top-ranked and was practicing my rail/chaingun on Q2DM8.  I'd just finished off a small battle near the upper SSG which started without me and got all three frags for it, including Eelpout, who respond 'Jesus Christ!' or something similar.  I apologized because I knew I'd done that several times to him earlier and was abusing the weapon, when he responded 'I know, but I'd rather you use that than the railgun.'  I literally stopped and typed out "Thank you" because of its unsolicited nature.)  Anyway, several times I'd been accused of cheating there, and several times there were Mage members either hanging around or incognito.  None responded to the accusations defaming me by saying I wasn't cheating on their server, but every single time I defended myself I found the clannies would reveal themselves to threaten me for using profanity.  Clearly their priorities were completely askew; if they'd said I wasn't cheating then and was still kicking their butts the verbal assaults and resulting tension would've subsided.  I may have even apologized for the cursing, but to them a 'family' server for a non-family game has different goals, and killing someone's reputation appeared to be just fine with them, as long as you phrased the murder weapons properly.  I don't believe anyone who forces me to defend myself has the right to tell me how to do it, regardless if they have the power to ban me or not - which they did, and they used it.  Justification and authority, as I've seen in the Q2 community, rarely go hand-in-hand.

As you can tell I don't believe in the 'protest too much' theory, as real cheaters can continue to cheat and people would believe them as long as they protested the right amount, which I'm unsure exists or is remotely the same among different people.  As for me, I've been defending myself ever since someone used my name and obviously cheated to ruin my reputation.  I'm not sure I've ever heard that happening to anyone else, and it's probably because of that people refused to believe I was capable of being mimicked; after all, I can't be that good.  I'm supersensitive to it now, and am in full belief that people like Haunted have no respect for me whatsoever.  They don't view me as the player who earned a top ranking uber-legitimately (read the signature) or even believe I'm the pure player I claim to be.  I don't think anyone who says I should calm down or develop a thicker skin is doing anything other than trying to defending those making the accusations, whether it be themselves or other people they know.  All the people I know, who also knew how good I was, have long since left, and it was perhaps my mistake to have come back after I lost whatever I had in Q3A.

Regardless, I have no qualms about leaving a mod or this game should it get to that point, and if that's the purpose of the accusations toward a non-tournament player then at least have the balls to step forward.  Haunted has accused me of beyond-a-reasonable-doubt cheating, something I was totally unaware of before the Jumpmod incident, but it's the owners of this site and its servers who seem to have forgotten.  First, you say the meaning of his words can't be construed to have an accusatory tone, then suggest I'm putting myself above making the same mistake.  Seems there's something I'm not being told.  Apologizing for erasing everyone's scores from a map isn't what I wanted, and misconstruing that was hardly possible.  Apologies for such an action must be directed to the entire community, not just me.  My score was one without achieving the triple jump on that map, as the demo clearly showed (if we're talking about the same map), so I'm not the most victimized here.  It's Haunted's apology for instigation and feeding the atmosphere that's claimed my reputation that's required, one I know isn't forthcoming.

When someone of Haunted's position, who now has and uses admin, hints at impropriety on my behalf after making that formal accusation in one of many threads I've been told are devoted to proving me to be a cheat (I only read the latest one and then searched for recent ones involving Haunted based on the surprising nature of his post) I have no choice but to react as I have.  I've been open about everything I'm capable of, offering - since before leaving for Q3A - to explain in detail and show how I know the things I know.  I suggested people learn from me, as I learned from the classic oldschoolers, but it seems newschoolers had too much of an attitude then, one which has only gotten worse since returning.

As for the rest, you're forgetting the 'for the third time' parts, which sounds too similar to 'for the last time,' an ultimatum I wouldn't even take from my parents.  I'm not a psyche student but I know how to 'read between the lines' as well as you.  If he specifically wanted my opinion as to how something like that could happen, say from a fellow respected quaker, then he went about it entirely the wrong way.  Said specifically the way he did, without provocation and with previous malice (though unknown to me), seems to require an apology.  Again, I know that isn't going to happen.

To recap:
1. The apology I want is from Haunted, and I'm not holding my breath.
2. I want those demos everyone says prove I cheat and explanations of how it proves such.
3. I want my skills back, so if anyone sees them floating around or someone else using them I'll happily reward you.
4. I want a job with supervisors who give me respect, don't lie about raises or promotions, don't steal my money and appreciate the hard work I put in which is unparalleled by other workers...

Alright, I'm not expecting anything on the third one and totally dreaming about the fourth, but you get the idea.

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Offline haunted

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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2006, 03:25:08 PM »
Ax, you are beating a dead horse. Quadz and I have explained (and in many cases several times) my actions and the intent of my actions to you fully.  I really do not understand why exactly you keep on saying things that are completely false ax. I also really do not know where to start being that I've addressed all of these concerns already, but I will try.

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I care because the most important thing in a game isn't having fun (you can have fun doing other things), it isn't being nice (you can be nice the rest of the day), but to observe the rules of the game, namely fair play and no cheating.

observing the rules of the game is above having fun?? yeah it's important but to me i always thought that people play games for their personal satisfaction. That's just me anyways.

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Reputation, or lack thereof, can make or break people, and attacking someone's reputation is the closest thing to murder in online gaming.

Ax, no one can make your reputation but yourself.  Even these posts will affect your reputation.  No matter how many malcious and hostile accusations you have had to endure, in the end there was no solid proof. Even in the "mage warehouse incident" you described. There's no physical evidence that you cheated (I'm guessing that the guy on your name had a different ip). The vast majority of reputation is created by general outlook towards others, your actions, and how you handle certain situations; NOT accusations on forum. Even if accusations do make your reputation, people still have the freedom to accuse anyone who they want as long as their opinion is relavent to the subject. The fact is, is that when that demo was posted of you by panjoo, he opened the floor for any opinions and findings from the demo to be posted. This is a discussion forum and the topic at the time was whether you were cheating or not.


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If everyone who's accused me of beyond-a-reasonable-doubt cheating (Haunted, for example) had his authority I'd be banned from every server still having more than two people on it a week, and that's death in any community, let alone this dying one.

Ax, again you are discrediting yourself by stating off-the-wall assumptions as if they were the truth. I posted my accusation on a discussion forum. When people read my post, they would state their opinions towards the demo, and also towards my accusation. Presenting my findings in the demo on a forum does NOT MEAN that I would in any way have thoughts of banning you if i 'had my authority'.


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Take the Mage Warehouse incident, for instance.

Alright.


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I had played there for a long time, but not necessarily as a regular.  I believe it was there Eelpout gave me the last real compliment I had in this game.  (This was around the time I was top-ranked and was practicing my rail/chaingun on Q2DM8.  I'd just finished off a small battle near the upper SSG which started without me and got all three frags for it, including Eelpout, who respond 'Jesus Christ!' or something similar.  I apologized because I knew I'd done that several times to him earlier and was abusing the weapon, when he responded 'I know, but I'd rather you use that than the railgun.'  I literally stopped and typed out "Thank you" because of its unsolicited nature.)  Anyway, several times I'd been accused of cheating there, and several times there were Mage members either hanging around or incognito.  None responded to the accusations defaming me by saying I wasn't cheating on their server, but every single time I defended myself I found the clannies would reveal themselves to threaten me for using profanity.  Clearly their priorities were completely askew; if they'd said I wasn't cheating then and was still kicking their butts the verbal assaults and resulting tension would've subsided.  I may have even apologized for the cursing, but to them a 'family' server for a non-family game has different goals, and killing someone's reputation appeared to be just fine with them, as long as you phrased the murder weapons properly.  I don't believe anyone who forces me to defend myself has the right to tell me how to do it, regardless if they have the power to ban me or not - which they did, and they used it.  Justification and authority, as I've seen in the Q2 community, rarely go hand-in-hand.

I apologize for all the hostile and malicious accusations and victimizations you have had to endure. I cannot express my sympathy for you enough.

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I'm not sure I've ever heard that happening to anyone else, and it's probably because of that people refused to believe I was capable of being mimicked; after all, I can't be that good.

Trust me ax,  you are not the first to be mimicked by someone cheating. And yes you are correct, it is not possible for you to be as good as someone who is botting.


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Regardless, I have no qualms about leaving a mod or this game should it get to that point, and if that's the purpose of the accusations toward a non-tournament player then at least have the balls to step forward.  Haunted has accused me of beyond-a-reasonable-doubt cheating, something I was totally unaware of before the Jumpmod incident, but it's the owners of this site and its servers who seem to have forgotten.  First, you say the meaning of his words can't be construed to have an accusatory tone, then suggest I'm putting myself above making the same mistake.  Seems there's something I'm not being told.  Apologizing for erasing everyone's scores from a map isn't what I wanted, and misconstruing that was hardly possible.  Apologies for such an action must be directed to the entire community, not just me.  My score was one without achieving the triple jump on that map, as the demo clearly showed[[no it did not, already stated in previous posts] and yes, gxjump1] (if we're talking about the same map), so I'm not the most victimized here.  It's Haunted's apology for instigation and feeding the atmosphere that's claimed my reputation that's required, one I know isn't forthcoming.

That paragraph is simply ridiculous. It is difficult to even fathom the absurdity from the conclusions you have drawn. No comment, please refer to my other posts.


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When someone of Haunted's position, who now has and uses admin, hints at impropriety on my behalf after making that formal accusation in one of many threads I've been told are devoted to proving me to be a cheat (I only read the latest one and then searched for recent ones involving Haunted based on the surprising nature of his post) I have no choice but to react as I have.  I've been open about everything I'm capable of, offering - since before leaving for Q3A - to explain in detail and show how I know the things I know.  I suggested people learn from me, as I learned from the classic oldschoolers, but it seems newschoolers had too much of an attitude then, one which has only gotten worse since returning.

For the third time, my intent was not accusatory. <<< did i just sound 'threatening' when i said that? haha... Anyways, me asking how you got a 0.0 time does not hint in anyway that I thought you were doing anything improper. Please refer to previous posts by quadz and I for a more extensive explanation on this matter that you may have looked over.

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As for the rest, you're forgetting the 'for the third time' parts, which sounds too similar to 'for the last time,' an ultimatum I wouldn't even take from my parents.  I'm not a psyche student but I know how to 'read between the lines' as well as you.  If he specifically wanted my opinion as to how something like that could happen, say from a fellow respected quaker, then he went about it entirely the wrong way.  Said specifically the way he did, without provocation and with previous malice (though unknown to me), seems to require an apology.  Again, I know that isn't going to happen.

I won't even get into the first sentence because it's not relevant, but WOW. I think instead of reading between the lines you should try actually reading them. Blaming me over a hypothetical situation that i was hinting an accusation is ridiculous. Also, you stated that you did not previously know about my accusations until after the jumpmod incident. So you are saying that you freaked out on someone that you were cool with when all they did was ask you a question??

I hope this helps you comprehend a little bit better ax. If you have anymore questions or concerns then feel free to ask. However, please do not express past concerns. Instead just refer to the posts that were addressed to them.



ps.  I think it's slightly accusatory when you accuse me of having an accusatory tone when I really didn't.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 03:29:12 PM by haunted »
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Re: Hello, I must be going
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2006, 03:53:47 PM »
everybody should learn to answer in less the 20 paragraphs in this thread.  :P
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