Vanilla mymap :(

[m4$73r j14u]

Howdy,

Since the new  mymap feature has been altered the fun voting maps has reached a zero point for me.
Today i tryied to mymap the map "torment"  on vanilla and it enqueued at the 6th place. That was the worst case so far, but generally i almost dont "mymap" maps at all anymore. Just from time to time to see if the old mymap standard has been restored.
What im trying to say is this too: If you want to play one or two quick maps in between and even dare to mymap a map of your liking here and there its never within that one or two maps range-so its practically useless to mymap at all for all those players that play under half an hour or an hour per connect. Thats a little bit sad. Maybe there is a better solution to the problem of abusing the mymap. I think there are only few players that abuse the mymap and constantly vote for biggun or like my teamate D.Camperone who votes his favorite maps whatsoever 

Summary:
-the "mymap" command often has no use at all for players that only play 10 to 20 minutes(or more)
-there are no good maps anyways

beak a leg...
 

[peewee_RotA]

beak a leg...

And an arm!


But seriously, I only ever mymap on mutant. I try to mymap on vanilla sometimes but when 90% of the maps available are in the rotation, it's hard to find one that hasn't been played too recently. It's still pretty effective on Xatrix, and any wod servers.

[ReCycled]

...

[m4$73r j14u]

I asked console to switch it back, but



That m-m-makes the hulk angry



 

[HabibGoatAss]

enqueued at the 6th place.

Yeah - I had one that went to slot 9 and just decided to bail in frustration.

It's probably selfish, but I too didn't want to sit through 8 maps until "the cool one" (or whatever I was thinking) came up.  This was a situation where 2 others has queued up custom maps and they went to slot 3 & 6 (cool - that's what _other_ people wanted and I'm ok with that).  Unfortunately, this command was designed to give the users some control over the rotation, but the timing buffers appear to be nullifying its purpose a bit.  Yea, one could assume the other folks who did not vote were really dead set on and excited about playing the normal rotation (who knows?), or maybe just asleep at the wheel (my guess).  The sad part here is that the maps that everyone really really wants to play, as evidenced by the votes, are now on the "dis-approved" list, and much less available.   It is just a bummer.  A sort of "let's just go play q-bert instead" styled bummer. It's lost its luster a bit.

In this case (yes, just my have-never-paid-a-TS-bill-Opinion so don't really count anyways), this all falls under the "harmful improvement" category.  I realize that the motives are good and intended to give a very fine balance between liberty and anarchy.

Regards,

Habib

[peewee_RotA]

enqueued at the 6th place.

Yeah - I had one that went to slot 9 and just decided to bail in frustration.

It's probably selfish, but I too didn't want to sit through 8 maps until "the cool one" (or whatever I was thinking) came up.  This was a situation where 2 others has queued up custom maps and they went to slot 3 & 6 (cool - that's what _other_ people wanted and I'm ok with that).  Unfortunately, this command was designed to give the users some control over the rotation, but the timing buffers appear to be nullifying its purpose a bit.  Yea, one could assume the other folks who did not vote were really dead set on and excited about playing the normal rotation (who knows?), or maybe just asleep at the wheel (my guess).  The sad part here is that the maps that everyone really really wants to play, as evidenced by the votes, are now on the "dis-approved" list, and much less available.   It is just a bummer.  A sort of "let's just go play q-bert instead" styled bummer. It's lost its luster a bit.

In this case (yes, just my have-never-paid-a-TS-bill-Opinion so don't really count anyways), this all falls under the "harmful improvement" category.  I realize that the motives are good and intended to give a very fine balance between liberty and anarchy.

Regards,

Habib

Could we instead (and this goes for the +IA time) have a "vote lame"  command so that if half of the players on a given server "vote lame" the next map is skipped. This could also be accomplished with a "vote nextmap" that would immediatly start the next map if half of the players vote for it. I think that abuses of these commands are easier to overcome than abuses of the mymap command.

[console]

enqueued at the 6th place.

Yeah - I had one that went to slot 9 and just decided to bail in frustration.

I think Habib already knows this - but for anyone who doesn't.  

The mymap delays added to vanilla only apply to custom maps (i.e. maps not on regular rotation.)

If you see a nextmap like: jail1 jail2 koth1 jail3 jail4 stellar jail5 .........

Chances are all those slots (jail1 jail2 jail3 jail4) are open for scheduling a non-custom map.

So if you were to mymap, say, fact1, then you'd see a nextmap like:

fact1 jail1 koth1 jail2 jail3 stellar jail4 .........

Notice that koth1 and stellar didn't lose their place.  But non-custom maps can be scheduled into the delay slots.

Yea, one could assume the other folks who did not vote were really dead set on and excited about playing the normal rotation (who knows?), or maybe just asleep at the wheel (my guess).  The sad part here is that the maps that everyone really really wants to play, as evidenced by the votes, are now on the "dis-approved" list, and much less available.   It is just a bummer.  A sort of "let's just go play q-bert instead" styled bummer. It's lost its luster a bit.

There are still people who play on vanilla since way back when it was xquake.  Personally I like custom maps, or I would not have added them.  But ever since I started adding custom maps to xquake, there has been an opposing view from those who preferred when the server used to run single player maps only.

Keep in mind, the server was always popular, even when it ran only single player maps in a fixed rotation.  Over the years, since I personally enjoy custom maps, I've added more and more of these to vanilla.  But there has always been pushback from folks who don't enjoy a big run of custom maps on vanilla.

The complaint I got most often concerned when someone would pop into vanilla and monopolize the server with an extended run of custom maps.  One could argue that players who dislike that should 'fight' against the run of custom maps by mymapping their own rotation maps.  But the response is, of course, that this is a problem that was created by mymap in the first place.

And as much as I may personally enjoy custom maps, I also find it hard to argue with the fact that the original charter of vanilla (née xquake) was to run the single player maps.  (Even the dm maps were added later.)

And so from that point of view, it would be a truism to say that if one prefers custom maps to the single player maps, a server like mutant would seem more appropriate to play on, than vanilla.


Anyway . . . I myself had gotten to where I would usually mymap custom maps on vanilla.  So it's been a minor but not-too-unpleasant challenge to refamiliarize myself with the names of various rotation maps which are also fun.


Regards,

[console]

Could we instead (and this goes for the +IA time) have a "vote lame"  command so that if half of the players on a given server "vote lame" the next map is skipped. This could also be accomplished with a "vote nextmap" that would immediatly start the next map if half of the players vote for it. I think that abuses of these commands are easier to overcome than abuses of the mymap command.

I've considered that on occasion. 

Although, the original idea for mymap came about because I tended to be annoyed by the distraction accompanying in-game voting systems.

For example:

buford has proposed a map vote for ztn2dm2. vote yes/no.
buford: omg! vote for my map!!
buford: omg! vote for my map!!
buford: omg! vote for my map!!
buford: omg! vote for my map!!
buford: omg! vote for my map!!
30 seconds remaining for map vote.
buford: omg! vote for my map bitches!!
buford: omg! vote for my map bitches!!
buford: omg! vote for my map bitches!!
buford: omg! vote for my map bitches!!
buford: omg! vote for my map bitches!!
buford: omg! vote for my map bitches!!
map vote failed.
buford: assholes!!
buford: assholes!!
buford: assholes!!

etc.



Meh, anyway... always trade-offs...

[[BTF]Dizzy]

Maybe something as simple as muting the person that called the vote, until the vote is over or the timer has elapsed? And if majority voted no, or the timer elapses, then don't allow that map to be voted for again for a certain amount of time?

I've considered that on occasion. 

Although, the original idea for mymap came about because I tended to be annoyed by the distraction accompanying in-game voting systems.

For example:

buford has proposed a map vote for ztn2dm2. vote yes/no.
...
buford: assholes!!

etc.



Meh, anyway... always trade-offs...

[peewee_RotA]

I agree that the voting systems are annoying, confusing, cryptic, and magnets for spam. I do however think that a command to abandon the current map and immediately switch to the next map is necessary. Obviously this could never be trusted to a single player just choosing to switch maps. It's something that only a vote or an admin would be able to properly use. Having admins on all servers 24/7 is not feasible, so the only way to properly use the function is through a vote. So anyway for this one single command I think it would be an acceptable exception.

[Edm-Dude]

mymap bigspacegunup +pu

But yeah, I found out that mymaps didn't mymap, or it was put somewhere else, its weird, i don't know.
reading this thread helped clear things up a bit, lol 

[m4$73r j14u]

But seriously, I only ever mymap on mutant. I try to mymap on vanilla sometimes but when 90% of the maps available are in the rotation, it's hard to find one that hasn't been played too recently. It's still pretty effective on Xatrix, and any wod servers.

I think mutant is the other extreme....If you dont know which map you want to pick and type mymap(holy moly,,,)you get a felt half of an hour *beep* spam (thats the sound quake2 makes if a textmessage shows up)and like 300 pages of alphabetic sorted map proposals....you still dont have a clue which one to take. And "mymap random +pu"is  kind of

 

[console]

I think mutant is the other extreme....If you dont know which map you want to pick and type mymap(holy moly,,,)you get a felt half of an hour *beep* spam (thats the sound quake2 makes if a textmessage shows up)and like 300 pages of alphabetic sorted map proposals....you still dont have a clue which one to take. And "mymap random +pu"is  kind of

Yeah...  Way back when, when hardly anyone used to play on mutant, I thought it would be fun to have a place where pretty much every map in the archive was available.

But the more mutant gained a regular clientele, the less reasonable it seemed to have some truly awful maps available in the mymap list.

So I would definitely support trimming the mymap list on mutant down to just maps that at least don't suck.


Regards,

[QwazyWabbit]

I wrote two modules for LOX, a voting system and a map selection system that go hand in hand. They are in-mod code so they are not useful for mods who's source is long gone but it might serve as a model for an external system.

The vote code allows a player to initiate only two votes per map, if he can't get it passed in two tries, he's done until the next map. A cvar controls how many tries he gets. It also has built in timers for duration of the vote and how often it announces a vote in progress. The configuration is parameterized so admins can change the spammyness of the announcements and the number of votes a player can initiate.

The map list module allows admins to configure a maplist.txt file for map rotation instead of an array of names. There's also a load-sensitive map rotation that chooses families of custom maps according to how many players are on the server but this has proved to be less useful.

http://www.clanwos.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=1

Maplist Management Module for Quake 2 Servers
and
A Modular Voting System for Q2 Servers

[console]

I wrote two modules for LOX, a voting system and a map selection system that go hand in hand.

Cool. 

I've also thought jumpmod has an interesting approach.  At the end of the map, a menu is presented showing three random choices for the next map.  Everyone has about, maybe eight seconds to make their choice.  The tallies update in real-time.


Regards,