New DM1-8 Server

[10zx]

i know..

I'd bind a key to "stfu ToxicMonkey"

[Punk_FAS]

It's pretty clear that many of us have different ideas about what should be added, modified, or taken away from the original deathmatch experience.

What if nothing was changed? That in itself would set it apart from other servers because you can hardly find an unmodified deathmatch server anymore. I think it would be really 'unique' if just one server could represent classic deathmatch, to give us that nostalgic and unforgiving experience of when we first started playing the game.

Anyways, I just thought I'd pass this idea along for consideration.

when I first started playing.. people didn't whine about using bfg, chain, powerups, spawn killing, chat fragging, ping, etc..

maybe we need a stfu command.. so when people start whining, or spamming shit we can say "stfu [BTF]Gator" and then he's muted 

I just hate getting n00b'd, for whatever reason it bothers me.  Or just annoys me I guess.  So if someone is good with the chaingun, that's fine, they practiced and devloped a steady hand.  I've never complaigned about chaingun, maybe because it's one of my fave weapons, who knows.  BFG takes probably the least skill of any weapons to aim, and it does the most damage, how is that balanced?  Quad gives a single individual 30? seconds of 4x power.  Sure, if only the newbs used quad, it wouldn't be a big deal, since the likelihood of a totally lopsided victory in the newbs favor is very low.  But if someone who would likely win the map anyway, uses quad like mad, then where's the sense of a chance for a win?

Spawn killing is fine if you're not focusing on a spawn, IMO, if you're "camping" a spawn, for the sole purpose of racking up frags just by freshly spawned players, then I think that's lame.  If you're running towards the action, or a weapon/item, and you see someone sitting still on a spawn pad, sure, frag em, someone else will anyway, might as well be you.  And ping you can't really do anything about, I mean, yes, it definitely gives a significant advantage the lower your ping is.  This game is very much about having faster reaction times than you're opponent, and your ping, or delay from the time you press your mouse button in reaction to something on the screen, and from the time the server actually aknowledges that you pressed that button, is directly connected to your net reaction time.  But like I said, ping is an uncontrollable factor, and only depends on how far you are away from the server, what type of connection you have, etc.  So you can't really "blame" someone for having a superior ping than you, it may partially explain why they play better than most, but getting mad at someone for their ping is silly IMO.  Ideally it would be best if everybody had like 10 ping or less, or zero ping, but that only really happens in a LAN setting.

[Art]

[Bleach]

And ping you can't really do anything about, I mean, yes, it definitely gives a significant advantage the lower your ping is.

[the Crazed]

Hmmm.... i think sometimes it's nice NOT to be equal with your opponent because they become a challenge to overcome. 


As Art said the BFG isn't as easy to use as most believe.  I used to never use it because I would rarely kill anyone with it and usually hurt myself.  I used to think I could fire it into a big room and run away and it would kill people but that isn't the case!  You have to be line-of-sight with your victims and they have to be line-of-sight with that huge green ball.  Of course it's not difficult to do, but it forces you to act predictably in order to get the most damage.  When you're predictable you're dead.  Also the time it takes the damn thing to fire is a serious handicap.

That being said... I have to admit I get really annoyed when someone good *cough* Warkilla! *cough* uses it over and over again ambushing you before you even know he's there and you're dead before you know it.  Not too many players do that though, not that I haven't done it  (it being the most efficient/least dangerous way to use the weapon )  but I usually (i wonder what the actual ratio of my BFG kills versus the other weapons is...) stay away from the bfg unless it's the weapon of choice on the map and everyone's fighting to use it.

Ummm, IMO it adds balance to the game for a few reasons... the first being map balance.  It's an important item and where it is placed on the map is an important location.  If it's not there no one goes there anymore (like the upper crate train on Mage Warehouse).  It's also a great weapon for newbies!  A very powerful weapon they can use to get the frags they crave and probably kill themselves in the process. 

Anyways, it just kind of introduces more randomness into the game and interesting challenges.  I really enjoy battling with someone that has a BFG, trying to get them to use up their ammo until *click* they're vulnerable.  Getting ambused by it is the annoying thing, but at least it makes you have to struggle to stay on top of the game. 

I guess Quad kind of does the same thing as the BFG... introduces a little randomness and tests skills you might not otherwise use (like hauling ass away!).  Again, it can be annoying if a good player *cough* Habib! *cough* whores it so well you can set your watch to it, but then the challenge is to time it yourself and steal it away.  That becomes a victory in itself.  Like the BFG it's good for newbs (if they can get it) and usually is in an important spot on the map. 

So... I dunno... I agree they can both be abused... but they can be good too... there's great satisfaction in killing someone with quad or bfg... 

[Punk_FAS]

As Art said the BFG isn't as easy to use as most believe.  I used to never use it because I would rarely kill anyone with it and usually hurt myself.  I used to think I could fire it into a big room and run away and it would kill people but that isn't the case!  You have to be line-of-sight with your victims and they have to be line-of-sight with that huge green ball.  Of course it's not difficult to do, but it forces you to act predictably in order to get the most damage.  When you're predictable you're dead.  Also the time it takes the damn thing to fire is a serious handicap.

Bah, if you know anything about sounds and a map's layout, BFG is simple to use.  Find people fragging, not looking at you, shoot BFG at any surface nearby, wall, ground, etc., just don't be super duper close to the green ball when it makes impact or you'll take significant damage too.  Boom, you just got yourself some super easy frags, often times 2-3+.  And I'm pretty sure you have to be within line of sight of your own green ball AND the targeted player(s) when the green ball makes impact for it to do max damage.  I think if you can see your targets, but NOT the green ball when it makes impact, then it doesn't do full damage.  But like you said, shoot it into a crowded room, and not being able to see either, is just a waste, it will only do the minor damge from the little lazers that extend from the ball.

Anyway, about the newb comment.  Yes, it's good for newbs, but I guess I was hoping/expecting the dm1-dm8 server to cater to a better quality player, and not be a pro-newb server so much as a pro-experienced player server.  So therefore there's gonna be a lot of good players abusing the BFG, instead of a more skills-focused competition.  Vanilla is what the newbs prefer it seems (I don't mean any disrespect when I use that term newb btw), but the more novice players seem to prefer Vanilla, where there's a BFG on just about every map, and lots of obscure places to camp, etc.  Just my input, which I realize is just worth about $0.02.

[the Crazed]

Hehehe.. good points..  you're probably right about who's gonna be playing there, and the bfg is probably mostly used for abuse (ambushing) anyway.  I still think it's fun to battle with someone KNOWING they have it, but usually you die before you realize its upon you...

Ummm, I'm going to have to stand by what I said about how the bfg does damage though.  As far as I know there are only three kinds of damage the bfg does.  1) Machingun-like damage while it's flying, 2) Blast damage when it hits (only effecting those very close) and 3) Line-Of-Sight Damage under the conditions I listed below.  Unless there are different kinds of line-of-sight damage (such that I+II < I+II+III) then you only need the first two conditions to do max damage.  Frankly I doubt there are any variations, because II+III doesn't do any damage at all...

Conditions for Line-of-Sight Damage

I. victim in line-of-sight of bfg impact
II. victim in line-of-sight of attacker
III.  attacker in line-of-sight of bfg impact


.....sounds like you don't use the bfg enough! 

(EDIT:  Since Warkilla came back to this topic I've read this again and realize how cryptic it sounds... although it's said simply in previous posts - to clarify: If the victim can see the bfg impact, and you can see the victim, he'll feel a world of hurt )

[Art]

Well, I'll leave this for the two of you to discuss, but it kinda irritates me to hear someone say a map item can be abused. Sorta reminds me of the toxic monkey cheese & whine about the chaingun abuse. 

[the Crazed]

Hehe, I dunno Art...

I agree that it should be turned on, but I can definitely get annoyed through its constant indescriminate use.  Maybe the word "abuse" is a little too harsh... how about... "exploit unmercilessly"?    That might describe it better...

You're right though... it's part of the game, deal with it...

[Bleach]

You're right though... it's part of the game, deal with it...

always been my saying as well

[10zx]

i run quad like a fiend..

[Punk_FAS]

Spawn camping is part of the game, we should deal with it properly, and plead with the admins at tastyspleen to have the short invulnerability removed at spawn.  Afterall, it's part of the game, so why remove it?  Who cares if it's gay, and will give players much less skilled than you, players who haven't earned anything as far as talent etc., a similar score as you have.  ID made the game a certain way, and how dare we cater it to our preferences?  Or how dare we suggest that something they implemented 7+ years ago shouldn't stand for the rest of eternity?  Oh, the gall we have!

Remove the BFG, it sucks =P  At least on the dm1-dm8 servers, who gives a rats ass if it was "designed" as part of the map.  So was the power shield, but it's only a wimpy power screen now, why aren't you crying about that?  Why the huge support for the BFG?  It's a way out of balance weapon, and is too often abused, and will not enrich the gaming experience on the traditional DM server one iota I don't think.  I would like to see the DM server to become one that draws the better skilled players, and weeds the BFG dependent novices out.  If the BFG is gone, it will be more to the liking of "most" of your better players.  Since afterall, how did they become "better" players?  By playing against 'better" players, and learning all the weapons, not by whoring the BFG, and racking up cheap frags.

That's my humble opinion, and my hope for the future of the DM server.  I would love to see that as one of the top FFA servers around, where the best players come to FFA.  Currently all the good players play TDM, the best players anyway.  Perhaps because they too dislike the cheapness of the BFG and other things that are common on most FFA servers.

Currently, I'd say the top 2 FFA servers I know of, that seem to have the highest average skill level are Mage Warehouse, and DS Edge Madhouse.  They both have a few things in common, both are popular maps, loved by most all players, both don't have the BFG, neither has power shield, red armor, or anything else to significantly boost your defense above that of the enemy you're facing, and neither have quad.  I have a feeling all those factors play into their popularity with the better-than-average players.

[Art]

I've got no problem with the spawn protect on ts as long as it doesn't introduce lag. Spawn camping is no longer part of the game there. On servers where there's no spawn protect, deal with it.

My opinion is if there's a powersheild, there should be a quad, and if there's a bfg, there should be a powershield

[Punk_FAS]

I was stating WHY those 2 servers are popular, it's because of the maps, so it IS relevant IMO that those maps happen to be free of the overpowered items, you don't see a DM4 or DM6 only server do you?  Do you think they'd be full of good players?  I doubt it.  And on DM8 shards are equal to a measly 2 hitpoints.  Basically let's you survive getting railed.  I also said "significantly" boost your defenses above your oponents.  Most everybody on Mage is running around the map with at least a shard on them, so that wouldn't be one person being superiorly equipped than everybody else.  Don't forget there are 15 shards spread out around the map, all on a 30 second timer I believe (I've seen it reported that armor is on a 20 sec timer but I believe it's 30).  All dm1-dm8 maps have mega, sans dm6-7 as well.  And on Mage it only spawns here and there, not every map, sometimes the map loads up with it, sometimes it doesn't.

I'm just saying, I would like the DM server to not be another Vanilla server just with different maps, I'd like for it to cater to better players, and I suppose focusing on the weapons/powerups found on dm1, is the best way to go to cater to that group.

I also agree with Elysium that the mymap command should only work for dm1-dm8, since the point of this server is for traditional deathmatch on the dm1-dm8 maps.  I would just highly prefer BFG, but mostly quad, be left out.  I think quad annoys me more so.

[HabibGoatAss]

BFG takes probably the least skill of any weapons to aim, and it does the most damage, how is that balanced?