Console/Quadz, please address the Inappropriate behavior on the TDM servers.

[Punk_FAS]

This has been going on for a while, and it annoys me when I see it.  I'm under the impression, that anybody is allowed to play on the TDM servers.  This would include the UDML server too right?  I mean, unless of course there's a practice or tourney going on, but you'd still be allowed to stay as a spectator correct?

Many times, you have asses, who refuse to allow certain players on their teams, and will repeatedly kick them so they can have 2v2 or whatever.  I was under the impression, that anybody that wants to play, as long as teams are even (2v2, 3v3, 4v4) etc., should be allowed right?

Certain players try to monopolize the servers, as if they were their own.  Aren't they public, as in nobody, cept maybe console, or official tourneys, have more say over another player, on who gets to play, or who gets to even stay and watch.

What pushed me over the edge, was I was practicing on the UDML server, with the aR clan.  And while I was playing, they were asking me to get off the team.  I was concentrating, and I didn't notice the text (I rarely read text anyway), and they kicked me.  Sure np, I returned, said "sorry, didn't see the text", and I was kicked again.  Why is this?  I think it was Dahang, but not sure, is he allowed to control the server in such a way, is he "in charge", is his fun more important then mine?  Am I not allowed to observe a practice?

My main beef is just people being annoying on the TDM servers, and being general asses, but this other occurance also has had me wondering what the real rules are to begin with.

Edit - Just to add another scenario.  Say there's 6 people on the server, and one cocky individual, wants to show how great he is, and joins one team, and locks it, so nobody else can join.  Then he demands we have a 3 or 4 on 1, since that's what he wants.  When everybody else wants a team game.  What can we do about these individuals?  (actually we kicked this individual).  But what about the players that repeatedly kick people off their team, for whatever reason, when the only reason, is they don't like that player, or don't find that player skilled-enough to play.  Thanks.

Oh yeah, and I looked again at the UDML/NADML server, and with 4v4, + I guess the designated refs, + wallfly, that's pretty much a full server, with the cap being 13 players.  So that's understandable, just wish they had kicked me in a different manner, but I think I'll be ok, maybe a hug will help =P

[myamagical]

My current solution to this is to make binds to join a team and spam it so I am guarenteed a spot on the team as 'captain'. It works most of the time.  

bind q "jointeam hometeam"
bind w "jointeam visitors"

[[BTF]Defiant!]

Punk, I share your frustration with the rude behavior on the tdm servers.  I'm glad that it is less common here on TS. 

Def

[BigwigKEA]

This has been a problem on gx or tdm server for as long as I can remember. And one of the main reason that I've spent very little time playing there. That's why I played FFA 90% of the time...you jump in you play and you leave when you're done. Any of the scenarios you mentionned is always frustrating. I personnaly hate when some players want to 1v1 when there's like 6-8 ppl in a server. I mean come on...why not play teams and let everybody enjoy their time in the server? 

[Remedy]

Punk during the nights of 4v4 NADML/UDML matches we just kick the specs now, it's grown somewhat tiresome over the last couple of years to explain to every single person that comes in there that the extra spots are for the teams extra players, not for people who want to spec the games, and even when we ask them to leave people rarely do because they think it's funny to put us out, even though it's delaying an already scheduled match and putting out a bunch of people

no one means any disrespect by it I don't think, it's just the servers are too small to accomodate specs and anytime more than 8 people get on the NADML/UDML ip at least 3 or 4 people that dont belong there just come and sit

if you want to watch the clan matches you need to ask for demos from the clans via irc, I know that's lame but its just how it is, if we boosted the player cap to 16 we would just have more people in there causing problems

[soso]

Why not just set a fucking password?

[haunted]

if you were kicked from the NADML server and weren't paying attention to text then the server was probably full or close to full and they needed more slots for clan members.. dahang does not have the ref pw to my knowledge so idk if he did it or not...

Also, if it's 1 person causing all the trouble.. (the 2nd scenario).. vote kick asshole?

[Remedy]

Why not just set a fucking password?

well Im not sure how many people have access to the rcon thing, back in the last falls UDML i set a different pw every week but now that NADML is on I'm not as directly involved with it so I dunno man, like a lot of ppl have problems typing in

"set password ****"

I think

I always offer to pw the server when I'm around

[Punk_FAS]

My main complaint, is earlier, we were trying to get a 3v3 going.  Granny was playing (under the nick [grannit] or something like that), and his team had 2 people, and my team had 3.  There was a spectator, and he wanted to play, and granny refused to let the guy play because "he didn't like him".  Tough titties I say, it's not his call, am I wrong?  We ended up having to vote to kick granny, so Dake could invite the third member, Granny reconnected, then Dake invited Granny, so we had our 3v3, and we played.  Just shouldn't be such a hassle to have a fun match.

We should have a set guideline of what exactly the "play-nice" policies are, and I know TS has been fairly liberal in the past, so I'm sure there won't be any rules against trash-talk/foul language (which doesn't bother me anyway really).  But to have people try to control things, monopolize the server IMO, shouldn't be allowed, and there should be consequences for people who continually do so.

[console]

Blargh... dunno where to start.....

Problem A.  Official matches / scrims / practices for nadml encountering spectators who refuse to leave, and apparent occasions when no official nadml player in attendance had the perms. to kick them off.

I understand this has been an ongoing source of frustration, and thus the emergence of the current kick-without-explanation solution.  I support this if it's the best solution we've got going at present.

What else would help here?  More nadml officials with ability to set a server password?  More officials with the ref password?  (We can do lrcon, so folks could have the ability to set the server pasword without full rcon access.)

I'm open to suggestions on how to mitigate the problem.


Problem B.  Public tourney servers when no official match is being played: Waiting a long time to play a match, only to be kicked off a team, etc.

I've heard about this happening a lot, in various permutations.  Not sure what the solution is, since being able to remove people from teams is also needed.  Spamming a team creation bind when a match is ending, as mya points out, gives you essentially a lottery chance to define your own team for the next match.

If the tourney mod were not closed-source, it might be interesting to try out a variation where whichever two players had been waiting longest without playing a match, automatically got teams created on their behalf for the next match.

Another possibility--maybe--would be to create a couple additional tourney servers, and somehow name them to indicate they are different.  Give out the ref password on these special servers to anyone in good standing and over time take it away from anyone who abused it...  Sounds like a maintenanace headache in the making.  But the thought was these specialized servers would have some sort of 'no monopolizing' policy, and the deputizing of enough refs to enforce some sort of "inclusive" team selection outcome.

Another twist on that would be to have a bank of tourney servers where, using config voting, you could essentially do a "vote ref".  Then whoever was voted for, would become the ref and could essentially run the server according to their own whim, until someone else was voted the new ref, or people just said well this guy's lame, let's go to a different one and vote a ref who we know isn't a jerk.

Hmmm... there's the possibility this "vote ref" thing would be relatively simple to set up.  I'd leave the existing tourney servers alone, and set up, maybe, tourney-v1 thru tourney-v5 or something.  Because I'd have to create a separate config file for everyone who wanted have a "vote ref" option for themselves on these servers, you'd have to PM me with whatever ref password you wanted and I'd have to set it up.  (It remains to be seen how many configs can be in the vote list.  If it's a limited number, than this idea won't work well.)

Hmm...

Well anyway, I'm open to ideas...  (I may just try this "vote ref" thing.)


Regards,

[[TC]Granny]

I wasnt even captain in that game so u know... but there is 3 ts servers so if its 2on3 and the 6th person is an asshole and me and dake dont want him then he can goto a different server with the last joined on other team.. there is no rule sayign if there is 8 ppl on server u MUST do 4on4.. no one would play these servers if it was anytihng like that.

[Punk_FAS]

I wasnt even captain in that game so u know... but there is 3 ts servers so if its 2on3 and the 6th person is an asshole and me and dake dont want him then he can goto a different server with the last joined on other team.. there is no rule sayign if there is 8 ppl on server u MUST do 4on4.. no one would play these servers if it was anytihng like that.

Are you sure you weren't captain?  I recall them bugging you to send him the invite.  And also, soon as we vote-kicked you, Dake first invited the other guy, then you, so that doesn't seem like Dake didn't want him playing.  Anyway, stuff "like that" happens a lot, and I just find it inappropriate, putting one persons wants over another persons ability to have a good time.

Also, earlier, {SX}Reflex was already on Tourney4, and on a team, and Dinsum was on the other team.  Well, Dinsum & Granny decided they wanted to 1v1 on that server (they had just 1v1'd on another server), so Granny joins Dinsum's team, so they'd have enough people, 2 against 1, to vote Reflex off, which I found profoundly inconsiderate.  Things like that I don't think should be tolerated.  At least ask the person, Reflex in this case, if he'd mind if you could 1v1, he may have said yes, no biggy.

Ya cyber bullies =P

[[TC]Granny]

we did ask.. and obviously reflex isnt gonna get a kill on din so why would they play? me and din dont play noobs 1on1 its boring.
plus 5 people wanted to watch us play and if me and din didnt join ref would be sitting there by himself.. think these things through first.
btw he went obs he wasnt kicked u can ask him

[Punk_FAS]

I did a condump when it happened, here's an excerpt, from start to finish, in the attached file.  Based on the vote initiated, then Reflex being removed, and his reaction "WTF", I think he was kicked.  And your response "me and din dont play noobs 1on1 its boring.", well, go to another server.  Flex was there first, he was on a team, and you abused the vote command to get your way.

Tell me where I'm mistaken.

[[BTF] Reflex]

Well,  here's the story from my pov...

we were all on one of the servers...  game got set up with enough ppl to play.
So I went to tourney4 which was empty, so I could chill out,  listen to music,
and work on jumps...  lord knows they need work

The game wraps up on the other server,  I had been jumping the whole time..
and Din comes on and says lets play,  I make a joke about should I turn sound on
or not...  as I didnt have any,  just music.  So I go and turn it off,  come back and
ready up,  Din didnt  ready,  and ridix wanted to play.  I dont know why they
decided to vote me off..  im always more than happy to step aside and let ppl play.

When I saw the vote I just went obs,  but yeah..  WTF?  you leave granny to
come and ask me for a game,  then dont play it and play granny?

Now the other thing...  of course im not nearly up to par in skill of about 99%
of the players out there.  But I can frag you granny,  I can frag Blood,  I can frag punk,
I can frag naym,  I can frag anybody.  And believe it or not catch some of you by
surprise even on edge.  So to think I wont frag Din,  or even take something usefull
away from a game with him is kind of out there..  in q2 conceited left field

And if you and din didnt join,  and I was there all by myself,  I would have been
fine just working on jumps...  "think these things through first"

And so what if I went obs?  How long after vote initiation were you going to wait
before voting me off?  Nixon resigned before impeachment,  I resigned before the
votes could be counted,  and I didnt even do anything wrong.

anyhow,  im sure this has been blown way out of porportion.
Ill see you all on the servers..  Ill still play any of you 1 on 1 anytime.