North Korea

[2d]

Since Kim Jong Un is the driving story of the century, i figured we needed a thread just for his special self. The past presidents of the united states have followed a policy of sanctions and diplomacy, leading the rogue leader to posses an arsenal of nuclear weapons.

With the election of trump, the rhetoric and the danger has escalated to levels previously unseen before.

I wanted to make a poll to see what this community thinks should happen..

I am for easing tension and establishing normal relations with kim jong. He is a lunatic, but i would rather save millions of lives. 

[|iR|Focalor]

The past presidents of the united states have followed a policy of sanctions and diplomacy, leading the rogue leader to posses an arsenal of nuclear weapons.

So it's OUR fault he's such an asshole? Yep, every time I break into someones house and steal their shit, it's because the person I'm burglarizing has been LEADING me to do it because they won't willingly give me expensive shit that I want.

Take a gander at this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#/media/File:Korean_Peninsula_at_night_-_2012_-_NASA.png

This is an important image. It clearly shows you how capable and willing the "respectable" North Korean govt is when it comes to providing their citizens with basic things like electricity, and coincidentally, any other basic utility service that the developed civilized world enjoys.

Here is a quote prominently posted on the KFAUSA's
KFAUSA's (Korean Friendship Assoc.) home page:

KFAUSA is a friendship based organization that promotes peaceful, diplomatic & cultural relations, economic growth, understanding, & friendship between the DPRK and the United States. We work positively towards the peaceful unification of the Korean peninsula, and to also educate others about the people and culture of the DPRK. We hope you take the time to learn the many wonderful things North Korea has including its culture, people and history.

In other words... or more accurately... in THEIR OWN fucking CLEARLY STATED WORDS... they want control over South Korea. And they also want to teach you about their people and their culture. Well what they DON'T say is that they don't fucking have a storied culture, because the Kim dynasty has erased it all and replaced it with a religion whereby the sun rises and sets because their wonderful dictator-god has made it so. Even communist china and russia never went as far as erasing their own history and heritage in favor of state sponsored modern propaganda. Pretty sure Hitler and Nazi's tried it too though. So... birds of a feather... are assholes.

Let's buy him the fucking pony he's pitching a temper fit for though. Surely that'll be his last demand.

[2d]

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Everything Focalor says is right, but at the end of the day, if a nuclear bomb goes off, everyone has failed. A nuclear bomb cannot be the answer. We have to do everything possible to prevent this.

I am a fan of this thought:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-11/the-alternative-to-nuclear-war-is-a-revolution

[|iR|Focalor]

A little off topic:

Just looking at the still from that Youturd video... I remember how they said that W Bush had doubles for security purposes, and pretty much every sitting US President does. I realize that they actually found one or two other guys out there who look exactly like Trump. How in the hell does ANYONE else have fugly god damned double-decker-combed-over hair like that? The things of nightmares. 

Everything Focalor says is right, but at the end of the day, if a nuclear bomb goes off, everyone has failed. A nuclear bomb cannot be the answer. We have to do everything possible to prevent this.

I don't know why you assume that if anything happens, it will necessarily be "nuclear". Kim Jong Un might be the "leader", but he may not have the total control over "the big red button" (IF they have one) like many people want to think. Even in a totalitarian dictatorship, the dictator isn't always in total control of absolutely everything. Politicking is sometimes the way it goes, even for guys like Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, and... pretty much ANY one of the 3 Kim's, but Jong Un in particular since it was widely publicized that he probably murdered his own uncle in order to eliminate political opposition and maintain favor with his military leaders. ( Fuckin' swell guy, huh?) All of them murderers, no doubt, but they often had to schmooze people and play politics to get things done rather than stomp around like a gun wielding loon screaming demands like a bank robber.

Anyway, I think his "committee" of military leaders are probably the ones ultimately calling the shots if/when the shit hits the fan and immediate military action is needed. And they're not dumb enough to launch one of their short range nukes at a US territory like Guam, or even one of their rumored longer range rockets at a target on the west coast. If NKorea launched a nuke... US would launch nukes, Russia launch nukes, China launch nukes, India launch nukes, Iran launch nukes, France launch nukes, etc etc etc, lotta fuckin' nukies. As a result, life on earth would end. Because even in the places where they didn't even feel a slight tremor from a nuke det, they'd eventually be covered by the drifting clouds of ash and fallout that would blot out the sun entirely and would stay that way for DECADES... meaning crops wouldn't grow, water would be poisoned... no matter how well stocked your zombie bunker is, it isn't stocked ENOUGH, you're gonna fuckin' die. But even if by some act of GOD HIMSELF that North Korea survived all that and maybe a few people in other countries did too... the chance of continuing agreeable diplomatic relations with those nations would be turned to shit, and DPRK knows it. (Dumb Peckerheads who Ruined Korea) You don't have nukes to USE them. They are a de facto shield. They keep everyone else from showing up in your country wearing military uniforms.

North Korea isn't completely stupid, they know this is how the game works. They want to scare dumb westerners into pleading with their government to give in to NKoreas demands and lift economic sanctions. They know they can't appeal to US politicians, so instead they wanna have YOU protest for it. (And you're following right along, aren'tcha?) Because until NKorea gets some economic stimulation going, they can't afford a big enough military to invade the South and unify the Korean peninsula as per the DPRK's bullshit website I quoted earlier.

China probably likes having North Korea there as a buffer between themselves and the damn-near puppet state pro-US South Korea. (That was the entire reason they intervened in the Korean War, the keep the UN off their front doorstep) On the other hand, today China LOVES their commercial relationship with the US. They keep pumping out cheap crap, and we buy the living fuck out of it in INSANE amounts. So if the shit ever got REAL and fighting broke out, I don't think they'd intervene directly against the US this time like they did in late '50. They be pimpin' deluxe wit they bitch America. They love that paper, yo. They wouldn't hesitate to shoot us in the face if we crossed into ChinaMart. But I don't think they'd really give a fuck if we kicked in the door on the 38th and steamrolled our way into Pingpongyang.

[QwazyWabbit]

The first obligation of any government is to identify and demonize with propaganda "the other", making them out to be the enemy of all that is right and good with "us". This is done to keep the population under control and in fear of "the other". You can see it plainly with "strongman" leaders like Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini but not so plainly with Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, Hirohito or Netanyahu who did some "good things" for their people in the beginning but eventually fell into maintaining control by evil means or harming others.

The entire history of the existence of the DPRK can be traced to United States foreign policy dating from Teddy Roosevelt and the use by the United States of Japan in 1898-1908 as a proxy for U.S. influence in Asia. The U.S., together with Britain, Holland and Germany conspired against the Chinese empire and sold Indian opium to China and demanded payment in gold. When China rebelled and refused to pay, we sent gunboats up the Yangtze River, eventually supporting the boxer rebellion and the establishment of a weakened Chinese nationalist government. This eventually led to the rise of communism in China. We sold battleships to Japan and made what was an isolated, xenophobic, kingdom of warring states into an "empire" in Asia which immediately began wars with the kingdom of Korea, tzarist Russia (1916) and China (1932) and the Philippines, eventually leading to the attack on Pearl Harbor and the complete destabization of Asia. The puppet got out of control. This led to civil war in China and to the civil war in Korea that because of American imperialist ambitions in Asia and the domino theory led to Americas direct involvement there.

When Gaddafi gave up his nuclear ambitions and acceded to UN demands the U.S. and U.K. conspired to bomb the shit out of him in an attempt to assassinate him. We did the same to Saddam when he wouldn't play along and we knew he didn't have any WMD. Is it any surprise that Kim won't give up his nukes then? Now the "only super power on the planet" is using all its power and influence to keep one more country with a small-time dictator under its thumb. Why?

[QwazyWabbit]

I just ran across this:

The US has 800 military bases in 63 countries worldwide, and military personnel presently active in 156 countries.

The US has been at war or in a military conflict for 224 of its 241 years in existence.

The US defense budget is over $610 billion yearly, which is higher than the defense budgets of the next 8 countries combined: China (215), Russia (69), Saudi Arabia (63), UK (48), France (55), India (55), Japan (46), and Germany (41).

The US is the only country that has ever dropped an atomic bomb on a population, killing about 200,000 people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

A December 2013 WIN/Gallup poll asked 67,806 respondents from 65 countries, "Which country do you think is the greatest threat to peace in the world today?" 24% of respondents said the US. The next highest perceived threat was Pakistan at 8%. 5% believed North Korea was the greatest threat.

The US has 6,800 nuclear armaments.
North Korea has less than 10.

The US has overthrown or attempted to overthrow 57 foreign governments since WW2.

North Korea has overthrown or attempted to overthrow 0 foreign governments since 1953.

About sums up the "conflict."

Fact checks anyone?

[2d]

North Korea isn't completely stupid, they know this is how the game works. They want to scare dumb westerners into pleading with their government to give in to NKoreas demands and lift economic sanctions. They know they can't appeal to US politicians, so instead they wanna have YOU protest for it. (And you're following right along, aren'tcha?) Because until NKorea gets some economic stimulation going, they can't afford a big enough military to invade the South and unify the Korean peninsula as per the DPRK's bullshit website I quoted earlier.

In my opinion, following along is better than dropping a nuke and ending millions of lives instantly. Like i asked before, who is kim jong un? No one really knows who this dude is or what hes really thinking. In 40 years time, russia went from pointing their nukes at us, to being reasonable global members of earth. In 100 years, America went from white power to multicultural plurism. My point is that time is the answer. Delay and provide time for the country to change. If that means kissing his ass so that millions of people live, we should do so. In the end, normal relations will demand change. Vietnam and china are no longer completely communist, and americans can actually visit vietnam without fear of Charlie Cong.

So if the shit ever got REAL and fighting broke out, I don't think China'd intervene directly against the US this time like they did in late '50. They be pimpin' deluxe wit they bitch America. They love that paper, yo. They wouldn't hesitate to shoot us in the face if we crossed into ChinaMart. But I don't think they'd really give a fuck if we kicked in the door on the 38th and steamrolled our way into Pingpongyang.

 

Now the "only super power on the planet" is using all its power and influence to keep one more country with a small-time dictator under its thumb. Why?

The strategy has always been to prop up an idiot in the middle east, have him keep the people contained until they snap out of their apocalyptic and literal interpretation of the koran. Feed this leader billions and treat him with importance. Replace the idiot leader, so that the idiot doesnt lay claim to a dynasty. Dangle a carrot of modernism and democracy to the people, see how they vote, and then rinse and repeat with a fool, until the desired change is reached. See Egypt / Palestinians / Iraq.

USA's goal is to spread capitalism and democracy. Russia China vietnam have all taken the bait, only a handful of countries still resist:

Notably, the Axis of Evil, which George W Bush so eloquently termed:

 Iran, Iraq, and guess who, North Korea.

Iraq: Rinse and Repeat: We tore them a new asshole
Iran: Time is on our Side: We made a deal with them because, i dont know, maybe their Leader is rational after all, and  they do not have nukes, so they kind of have to. Their populace is given more time to wake up...
 
North Korea: TO BE DETERMINED

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[|iR|Focalor]

This eventually led to the rise of communism in China. We sold battleships to Japan and made what was an isolated, xenophobic, kingdom of warring states into an "empire" in Asia which immediately began wars with the kingdom of Korea, tzarist Russia (1916) and China (1932) and the Philippines, eventually leading to the attack on Pearl Harbor and the complete destabization of Asia. The puppet got out of control. This led to civil war in China and to the civil war in Korea that because of American imperialist ambitions in Asia and the domino theory led to Americas direct involvement there.

The Bolshevik Russians towards the end of WW1 were a little more responsible for Mao's success in the Chinese Communist revolution than you detail.

Japan was never exactly a puppet. They were major UK and US allies present at the Versailles Peace Conference for the Treaty of Versailles, but their opinions and requests were altogether ignored because they weren't white, which highly offended the Japanese diplomats. Wasn't long after they got home that they decided to take matters into their own hands and started snatching up all the nearby territory they could with a clear message of "Pfft, FUCK YOU." to the US and UK if they expressed disapproval. Out attempt to get their attention and turn them back was the oil embargo, and their response to the oil embargo was to attack the US fleet at Pearl Harbor.

Iran, Iraq, and guess who, North Korea.

Iraq: Rinse and Repeat: We tore them a new asshole
Iran: Time is on our Side: We made a deal with them because, i dont know, maybe their Leader is rational after all, and  they do not have nukes, so they kind of have to. Their populace is given more time to wake up...
 
North Korea: TO BE DETERMINED

I'm pretty sure Iran does indeed possess nuclear weapons.

[haunted]

I don't know if Iran has nuclear weapons yet, but I know that's their intention. That deal was a joke. Limiting their uranium usage and centrifuges limits progress for sure, but to believe they were open with full disclosure about their progress and the amount of secret facilities they have is very naive. In my opinion, all we did was buy them more time to develope nuclear weapons under the radar while your average person thinks the deal was a true game changer.

[Sgt. Dick]

North Korea and Iran are sharing Nuke information behind the scenes also.  Any technology advances Iran or North Korea make are shared with the other country, at least partially.

[QwazyWabbit]

North Korea and Iran are sharing Nuke information behind the scenes also.  Any technology advances Iran or North Korea make are shared with the other country, at least partially.

And they're both getting help from Pakistan.

[quadz]

"How to deal with North Korea: There are no good options, but some are worse than others."


https://youtu.be/NGGDY3fc7WI?t=486
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Introduction ends @ 2:30
Discussion of NK begins @ 8:06

Interesting to hear details about the staggering amount of conventional firepower NK has aimed at SK.

[2d]

Interesting to hear details about the staggering amount of conventional firepower NK has aimed at SK.

25:00 - 28:00
"The best case scenario, is still horrible... Even if we were to annihilate the country without a single shot of retaliation from north korea, the aftermath would be unfathomable and make the situation in iraq seem like playing in a playground. They would still have nukes, chemical and biological weapons and those that are brainwashed into thinking they are the master race would form pockets of resistance and utilize these weapons..."

Very insightful... millions of refugees, the united states needing to go in and govern a stateless entity, millions flooding into china and south korea
The bits about some military personnel wanting to  "turn the screws" is troubling...


47:00 - 49:00
 


After listening to this, it just reaffirms my belief that the only realistic option in dealing with this idiot is appeasement, normalizing relations, and allowing the 21st century to filter into the country. Outside of this, millions will die :/ 

But then again, on a planet approaching 10 billion people... 

[Muerte]

This is funny.
What did North Corea or Iran to US?
North Corea was probing missales as any other country (as US) in own territory and international water.
Iran attacked US? Iran didn't start war last 300 years
Classic US government bullshit for retarded ppl.

US caused a countless number of conflicts after ww2 witch is no wonder since after imported all NAZi scientist Germans today are majority of ppl in the US


Dogs of Wars in the United States fabricate conflicts to justify their existence and money spent from the budget

[|iR|Focalor]

What did North Corea or Iran to US?

What did Iran do? Apparently you forget the Iran hostage crisis in the early 80's. Apparently you forget the fact that Iranian leader Ayatollah Komeini personally called for widespread riots and the murder of novelist Salman Rushdie simply because he wrote a book loosely based on Mohammed and certain aspects of Islam which he didn't like to talk about. Or... the standard issue kinda shit with non-democratic dictators... How about the thousands of people he murdered, political rivals, prisoners not given due process of law, etc etc. Doesn't matter what Iran did 300 years ago. It isn't the same country it was 300 years ago AT ALL. It underwent revolution and massive regime change in 1979 when Ayatollah Komeini came to power, and ever since, they've been poised as a threat to democracy everywhere, including whatever country YOU probably live in.

North Korea? They've verbally threatened South Korea, Japan, the US, and every other non-communist nation with war and nuclear obliteration on a weekly basis for the past... uh... well, since as long as anyone can remember, honestly. Not to mention... their leaders have, like I said before, committed all the standard issue evil dictator atrocities you'd expect and then some and then some more and then even fucking more.

US caused a countless number of conflicts after ww2 witch is no wonder since after imported all NAZi scientist Germans today are majority of ppl in the US

Was there supposed to be more to that statement? Because to me, it looks like you're claiming that the majority of US people are "Nazis".

Yes, we asked many Nazi German scientists to come work for us after WW2. They were very talented and very bright people with knowledge that benefited us greatly. The alternative was to let the Stalin and the Soviet Union get their hands on all of them (because some of them went to the USSR as well, a fact you conveniently want to forget to justify your ignorant blind hatred for the US). Stalin, in some cases, did not ask these German scientists for their help, he FORCED them to work for him (sometimes literally at gunpoint). But... America's the fuckin' bad guy, right?

As for everyone in the US being nazis... you're fucking stupid, and you should shut the fuck up with your ridiculous uneducated opinions.