Why Q2?

[themuffinman]

Got a Q2-inspired game and engine mod for Q3 in the works, based on Q3TA code, that'll hopefully appeal to both Q2 and Q3 players alike. Development is pretty slow because I'm really not a programmer. Some feedback on a few questions might help set things in the right direction (note this isn't aimed at being exactly like Q2, just much more like it)...

1. What makes you play Q2 instead of any other Quake?
2. What features have you always wanted in Q2?
3. What don't you like about Q2?
4. What's a better starting weapon choice - blaster or gauntlet/low-powered MG combo?

Right now I've got:
- all advantages of ioQuake3 including cross-platform support and support for png images
- most QL features now with regards to customisation, bright skins etc
- Q2 tiered armor with energy damage, green armor
- power armor (power shield and power screen)
- weapons: hand grenades, blaster (might be reconsidered), hyperblaster, Q3TA chaingun modded with spin-up time, Q2-style BFG
- upgraded physics with CPMA step/double jumping (to be replaced with own code eventually), really subtle air stop, air accel, air stop accel
- high-res vector graphics for items and medals
- Q2-style drop [item] command
- instagib mode
- dynamic ammo maxes, dynamic weapon knockback per weapon
- items: bandolier, ammo pack, adrenaline, invulnerability, rebreather
- gametypes: Clan Arena (which will probably be removed though because it's crap), Freeze Tag, and more.
- a bunch of other stuff

To-do:
- ogg sound support
- QL's light bloom effects
- ramp jumping, more Q2-style physics tweaks
- Q2-style falling damage
- clan tag support
- team balancing and shuffling
- ammo sharing?
- single player mode + co-op (low priority)
- optional mymap system
- alias commands
- use [item] command
- models for items, players and hell knows what else (cows? )
- sexy map remakes (q2dm1, q2dm3, q2dm6, fact3 currently in development)
- graphics enhancements like shadow volume mapping as seen in Warsaw
- 'weapons stay' dmflag
- MD2 and Q2 bsp support?
- customisable weapon cycle

I'll likely need other people to help in future, so good modellers, programmers and sound engineers (for announcer sounds) would be great.

Regards,
 

[Barton]

Bring back the boomstick for a start weapon. haha

[VaeVictis]

mg is NOT low powered for a start weapon... its a VERY powerful weapon dealing 5 damage per bullet and its deadly accurate...

the things i like about quake2 arent gonna be emulated in a quake3 engine, thats that... ive played plenty of both, and its just not gonna be possible... though im sure other people might be satisfied...

honestly one of the things i like about quake2 is the netcode, it was a total bitch to learn at first... but now that ive got it, its much more fun to play with...

[The Happy Friar]

Q3A's physics, weapons, levels, etc. are all to refined for me (I like Q1 & Q2 MP).  Plus, Q3A removed all the REALLY COOL SP STUFF that you could use in Q1 & 2.  No super-cool levels, all straight sterilized MP.

It's not a bad game (the engine looks great, feels great and can be fun to play), just not "rough" enough for me. 

As an example, I like DNF MP more then any other modern DM/CTF game I've played.  It's got some unbalance to it that makes it interesting.

[Sgt. Dick]

In Q2, I don't really care for BFG or Invul.

I tried Q3 for short time many years ago, I did not really care for it. I can't remember specifically why though 

[fdrjk]

For me, quake 2 has always been about the challenge. I've played games like Unreal Tournament and Q3, but they've always bored me. All other games before that bored me too, because they're easy to beat with little to no replay factor. So far, Quake 2 has really been the only game I ever cared about. I remember watching some of the old Thresh demos years ago and thinking, "Man, how do they do that?" It's just really fun, and really hard to be good at too. It's the only game that's really ever given me a challenge with 1v1/TDM etc.. it's not just the nostalgia factor that brings me back to it either. There's just something about it that haves me coming back. Not to mention the community is pretty hilarious too.

Again, props to quadz for keeping up these servers for so long. I remember finding TS jump and thinking this was a standalone jump server, then I saw someone invite to xatrix and thought, "they still have xatrix servers?" Then I found out they have a DM server, and a tourney server, and many many more until I found out really what tastyspleen was, a large central q2 haven with the most players and the most servers.

Without quadz, q2 would probably not be what it was today, and for that, I say, Thank You. 

[[BTF]Jehar]

Some specific unique mechanics that come to mind:

-20 second armors, 20+damage second mega (quakeworld style).
-30 second weapon and ammo timers
-100 damage rail
-tiered armor system, with same-tier stacking for lower-tier pickups (ie if you pick up yellow with any red on you, it adds a bit of red)

The other stuff is going to be a little harder to emulate:
-Dumb-client netcode.
-Movement (not only doublejumps, but things such as intertia, explosion pushback, etc).
-Ponytail on the female model with vertex animation.

[VaeVictis]

quake2 can also be much more stylized than quake3 in my opinion... ya watch pro quakelive players and its like "oh they all look like they play the same..." except a couple might use lg more or a few might use rail more...

with quake2, you can literally get people with styles like, no strafe jumping, and they can compete with top tier players like damiah or some one who goes really +back like kickr0 or bonz, and some one who goes really +forward like purri or adren

i dont know how youd emulate that... but that really is one of my favorite things about quake2... if i lose a match playing +forward, alright maybe ill try a really defensive play style next or if my rail isnt on one day, i might have to change my play style up to make better use of the slower rockets (which btw are a big thing about q2, the rockets arent a swiss army knife)... maybe one day ill feel like playing really stylish and fast with lots of movement and cool jumps, and maybe the next ill want to play with as little movement as possible

now i know some one can argue that q3 has styles too... but you have to admit there isnt as drastic a difference as in quake2...

[peewee_RotA]

Some specific unique mechanics that come to mind:

-20 second armors, 20+damage second mega (quakeworld style).
-30 second weapon and ammo timers
-100 damage rail
-tiered armor system, with same-tier stacking for lower-tier pickups (ie if you pick up yellow with any red on you, it adds a bit of red)

The other stuff is going to be a little harder to emulate:
-Dumb-client netcode.
-Movement (not only doublejumps, but things such as intertia, explosion pushback, etc).
-Ponytail on the female model with vertex animation.

Armor is applied by increments .33 values.

Picking up yellow while holding red gives you 66% of it's value and picking up green gives you 33%. Similarly picking up green while holding yellow gives you 66%.

Armor protection values are 80% for red, 60% for yellow and 40% for green.

As for the female model, don't forget that her jump animation flicks you off! 



Based on the original post, it looks like you got the power armor stuff down. Every time I look at the power armor code my eyes glaze over. Anybody who has cared enough to figure out the exact protection from ps, please tell. (I generally stop at the line "damage *= 0.5;" and laugh at how lame it is)

[themuffinman]

Man you're a stubborn bunch of purists Netcode would be the only thing I'd have no clue how to modify at this point in time. Other that that, it's mostly easy stuff.

Armor protection values are 80% for red, 60% for yellow and 40% for green.

80, 60 and 30...

g_local.h:
typedef struct
{
   int      base_count;
   int      max_count;
   float   normal_protection;
   float   energy_protection;
   int      armor;
} gitem_armor_t;

g_items.c:
gitem_armor_t jacketarmor_info   = { 25,  50, .30, .00, ARMOR_JACKET};
gitem_armor_t combatarmor_info   = { 50, 100, .60, .30, ARMOR_COMBAT};
gitem_armor_t bodyarmor_info   = {100, 200, .80, .60, ARMOR_BODY};

Armor pick-up calculations are done as follows (final amount is rounded up):

When New Armor is superior to Old Armor:
New Armor Value = ( ( Old Normal Protection / New Normal Protection) * Old Armor Total ) + New Base Count

When New Armor is inferior to Old Armor:
New Armor Value = New Normal Protection / Old Normal Protection * New Base Count ( ( New Normal Protection / Old Normal Protection) * New Base Count ) + Old Armor Total

Power armor absorbs 2/3's of total damage received. Half of that is taken from your cell ammo. The rate of cell consumption is doubled for the power shield compared to power screen. With the ability to switch it on or off and by forcing the player to sacrifice cells for extra protection, I think it's quite a nifty gameplay idea. The only lame part about it is that it's persistent, so if your opponent picks it up and has RA and cells then it's going to be a bitch to manage to frag him (only 7% of total damage would affect health). To make it more balanced I think power armor should have it's own base value which absorbs that half that is just written off, and when that's depleted you lose the item, much like regular armor.

[The Happy Friar]

Man you're a stubborn bunch of purists

Well, I look at is this way: if I wanted to play a different MP game I could, there's THOUSANDS of them out there. 

[VaeVictis]

ya know its just easier to memorize values... if ya have red, yellow gives ya 37, and green 9

[ex]

Quake 2 bunny hopping, not quake 3's sorta-bunny hopping.

Basically, delete all code for quake 3's movement characteristics and we're good.

On weapons, just my preference but put 'em all in there (a little more wod-like).  Blaster and gauntlet.

[Barton]

Drop INVUL and replace it with some clone of battle suit.

[M1SERY]

 Whats the major reason why q2 cant look better then it does ? Q3 - QL graphics are far superior , if I had my choice q2 would look like Q3 and feel like q2 > Is that to much to ask .