Author Topic: Why Quake  (Read 12678 times)

Offline Beetleguise

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2010, 06:22:08 PM »
I would like to clear one thing up here because I have seen several posts saying that the multiplayer of new FPS games seem to be less dynamic. This concept of being less dynamic is of false nature, the change of motion in newer games are set to be slower than the motion of newer or more realistic games the aspect and dynamics of the game itself are much greater in the more realistic games based on environment and the fact you must account for recoil of the gun, the power of the gun the distance at which you're firing gives the game another dynamic all together.

Vae, to comment on your post of people stating they are good by the standards of games such as COD, Gears of War, and Halo, these players have several things in common. Most of these players prefer to camp, use guns like the shotgun, grenade launchers,rocket launchers and MANY use the disgraceful nature of hacks and lag switches. Adjusting to the multiplayer of one game to another is based on reaction time, how well hacks are regulated, and the players, both the new comer and the players of the community, knowledge of the maps, the reaction time of the players, and how well the person can manipulate their char. The difficulty of one FPS multiplayer to another is an impossible thing because it is always a unique experience based on the individuals playing. This is true in the same manner of PvP in an MMORPG you can not compare one games PvP to be more difficult than another other than an opinion based answer. Which in this case shows the players inability to either adapt and progress in one area of game play or their weakness in the genera.

To comment on the rage subject, each person is individually effected by many circumstances which allows for different emotional stimuli to be exposed. I myself enjoy the risk of gambling including the high stakes of losing something in an MMORPG that took me months to obtain against an equal wager. For me, I wouldn't rage from an FPS, but I have been close to raging from an MMORPG.
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Offline X'tyfe

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2010, 06:38:06 PM »
Beetle, I was serious when I said I wanted you to share your thoughts on the history of Doom, Quake and ID Software. We have been over this before and I would like your twisted and misinformed view to be contested and challenged here. Please, say it so everyone can see it:

1, That you believe that Doom and Quake were developed for consoles first
2, That Doom was developed and is owned by Apogee
3, That Quake was developed and is owned by Accliam
4, That ID was never an independent company but instead owned by multiple companies such as SoftDisk, Apogee, and Activision.

On the subject of FPS games in general you have also claimed:

1, That FPS games have no gameplay value
2, That FPS games are easy
3, That FPS games are made primarily as tech demos

I shit you not people, we have had discussions on this before and he pulls these facts out of no where. Please for the love god prove him wrong. Where's Jehar when you need him :D
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 06:45:18 PM by X'tyfe »
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Offline Beetleguise

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2010, 07:14:38 PM »
Let me clear up something for those of you who know Xtyfe is your local internet drama queen who enjoys nothing more than to push drama along. I have known him for a couple years now and yes I have been over this discussion with him several times. id Software he claims has been until recently an independent game corp. I have told him before id software is NOT and independent and has never been an independent corp. They have always had someone else publish their works which in essence their games are not independently owned as you will see in this source
CREATIVE AND ID SOFTWARE DEBUT D00M3 ENGINE/EAX ADVANCED HD." Multimedia Publisher 15.9 (2004): 3-4. Business Source Premier. EBSCO. Web. 9 Apr. 2010.

I suggested that while the software was developed by id, it is owned by the publisher which Xtyfe doesn't comprehend. When an author publishes a book, the publishing corp owns the rights to the book, hence why an author pays for the copies published. Same as a car, by legal documents you rent a car from an insurance company.
http://www.google.com/#q=id+software+history&hl=en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=kdu_S7bEDIH98AaW0O2GCQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=12&ved=0CDUQ5wIwCw&fp=bcdf8cbbf06dc4f
http://www.google.com/#q=id+software+history&hl=en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=kdu_S7bEDIH98AaW0O2GCQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=12&ved=0CDUQ5wIwCw&fp=bcdf8cbbf06dc4f
http://www.giantbomb.com/id-software/65-347/

FPS, just like arcade style and many other fighting games, these game genera's are used to test the tech ability of the new game hardware which you can see in many articles including unlockables in the MK series. The games become popular and the game grows, the genera then has more games placed into it for the fan base. As a game programmer and software developer I can state safely by far FPS and Fighting games are the easiest to code.


Many FPS games focus on holding a VS Multiplayer mode and very little story to them. The pretty art of these FPS games has solidified the market of today. On a different spectrum RPG's and Adventure games have fallen victim to the art scam as well. These types of games were developed for a storyline and gameplay and unfortunately they something has to go art, or game content. When you take content away from and RPG or adventure you're effectively killing the genera.

Last I would like to address the difficulty statement. The FPS genera offers less difficulty solo play than the RPG, Strategy, and some Adventure genera games,which, is what I based my difficulty comparison on. Conserving ammo, and shooting a target to hell vs solving puzzles, brain teasers, and strategy involved hands down it offers a more dynamic and difficult challenge. As well it incorporates more stimuli use.
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Offline Beetleguise

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2010, 07:31:56 PM »
Hey Xtyfe here is more proof for you ^^
Hence Doom was printed FIRST as an FPS for the consoles that was TRANSLATED for the computer. It was published by the following.   :nana:
Doom

Publisher(s)    id Software
Midway Games
GT Interactive (Windows, Mac)
Activision (GBA, XBLA)
Atari (Jaguar)
Sega (Mega Drive 32X/Genesis 32X, Saturn)
Valve Corporation (Steam)
Williams Entertainment (SNES)
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Offline quadz

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2010, 07:46:28 PM »
Doom was printed FIRST as an FPS for the consoles that was TRANSLATED for the computer.

No.  Smashing Pumpkins Into Small Piles Of Putrid Debris.

The first release of DOOM was the MS-DOS version on December 10, 1993.


:exqueezeme:
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Offline The Happy Friar

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2010, 08:12:43 PM »
ok, so you're hear to be a dick.  You're like one of those CS jerks that would go around to planetquake "way back when" & purposefully stir things up.  you asked for peoples OPINION, then told them they're wrong.  Then you make false statements about the company w/o any evidence to back it up.  What false statements?  id wasn't indy.  Yes it was.  nobody owned them.   id fit the definition of "independent" perfectly until they sold themselves.  Them using someone else's code doesn't mean anything!  Unknown worlds is using Valve code but Valve doesn't own them!  2DBot used someone else codes for WoG!  Publishing has nothing to do with being independent.  Being owned or funded by someone else does.  Out of all the game companies that have existed for PC gaming, by your definition, only a handful of commercial selling companies would be independent: Sierra On-Line, Activision, EA, Acclaim, Ubisoft, Take 2, 3D Realms/Apogge, Interplay & Microsoft.  They all developed & sold their own creations, many still do today.  And no current companies labeling themselves as "indy" would be: They don't package & sell their own stuff, they all use someone else's web server, or website, or client, or bandwidth.  They don't own any of it, not even their games, because, like you said, someone else doing anything with the game means they're owned.  Being independent doesn't mean you own your work either.  There's thousands of companies who get paid to make stuff for someone else & the person who buys it owns it out right.  

id owned Doom, Quake, Rage games/IPs & Wolf/Keen IP.  Apogge/3D Realms owns Keen & Wolf3d/SPOD games.  It was developed for them, just like the windows "ding" sound was developed for MS & they own it.  They paid for it.

Why Quake vs anything else?  Besides reasons people stated, IT'S FUN TO PLAY.  We don't need made up goals or artificial prizes to drive us playing it, we drive it because we WANT to play it.  You think FPS is easy?  Ever play Doom on anything BESIDES the easier difficulty?  Doom has more puzzles in it then anything selling well today.  Quake had even more.  (To be fair, the RPG's of the 90's were more fun.  Buck Rogers was awesome.   More effort was put in to the "R" part then anything I've seen since then.  And yeah, you could take your player & interactions over to the sequels).   We want a challenge we don't need to wait for someone else to make it.  just don't fire your gun, don't run, finish it as fast as possible.  Heck, you're probably one of those "gamers" who thinks the only way to beat a game is to get every stupid little trinket.  We'll purposely NOT get everything just to make it harder (Zelda 3's 100% possible with 4 hearts, no sword, no shield, no armour, no bow/arrow, except when you need to pick up an item to continue the game.  Then you just ditch it).

I highly doubt you're any type of actual "game programmer and software developer".  I'm pretty sure I've made more games then you have.  You're just some college or high school punk.

And come on... at least be a complete lazy kid & quote wikipedia...  I know you're one of those "Wikipedia is my GOD & I'll kill myself for it" kids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_%28video_game%29  
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Offline Beetleguise

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2010, 08:28:20 PM »
Quadz, you're right it hit the shelf in stores 5 days later for the genesis and SNES. However it was available for download sooner than it was printed and released for the consoles. Xtyfe claimed it was ONLY intended for the computer when developed which is what I was proving wrong. Good catch though.
(SNES)Release Date: 09/15/199
Genesis 32X
(Windows, Mac) Dec. 10 1993
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Offline Beetleguise

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2010, 08:39:02 PM »
Friar I am not here to be a dick, I was here to prove Xtyfe wrong. He first stated that inclusively "Everyone" was pretty much blind when it came to evidence. Second if you look up top at my other posts I have provided many links and MLA citation of EBSCO sources sorry for your failed attempt at wiki. I'm sorry for your bad luck. Telling them their "opinion" was wrong was never stated, I said about how my own comparisons added up and how little it made sense. If you go back and look I was confrontational with Vae and Xtyfe. As for everyone else, they have given very many sane reasons as to why they play. Xtyfe has told me he plays because the multiplayer play is better in older FPS and he has not played many games a side from Quake. So he said come here and you all would say the same. As it turns out he was terribly wrong, many of you do play other FPS games and many other platforms in which then I responded by calling him out.

 In case you don't know business, in the fact of publishing, if you do not publish work as well then you are not an independent corp. Disney, Blizzard, Wizards of the Coast, Nintendo, Sony, MicroSoft. These are examples of independent corps. If I made a game and asked Blizzard to publish it, I am an independent (developer) but not independent. Blizzard owns my materials and therefore I'm not an independent. Also Purchasing a game doesn't mean you own something that's where copy right laws will show you.
http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Jan/1/241476.html

Another (LIBRARY) link, I'm guessing that you may not know what a library is.
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Offline X'tyfe

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2010, 08:47:31 PM »
Wrong, I never said it was only made for the PC. I have played the SNES version of doom and I even own the n64 version so FAIL!
That's strike one my friend, now a smart person would stop and reflect on the possibility that the rest of these claims could also be false, but please for our entertainment continue. I never said that I have not played many games other than Quake. This is totally false, I said I don't play console shooters which are made more than PC oriented shooters these days.  I own ALOT of PC FPS games and some of them even made within the last few years.

Friar, Beetle is indeed learning to become a game programmer soooo... INSULT TO INJURY! :D
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 08:57:07 PM by X'tyfe »
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Offline Beetleguise

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2010, 08:53:24 PM »
Xtyfe I used the word intended, not made.-_- I think you need to learn to read or correctly gather information.
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Offline X'tyfe

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2010, 08:57:34 PM »
I think you need to learn to read or correctly gather information.

Says you lol
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Offline quadz

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2010, 09:10:36 PM »
In case you don't know business, in the fact of publishing, if you do not publish work as well then you are not an independent corp.

That's quite an oversimplification.

(1) My first professional game programming gig started in 1989 with a company that indeed not only did its own development, but also its own publishing.  That meant, when we finished the game, all the programmers + artists went downstairs and formed an assembly line with all of the other employees and folded and stuffed and shrinkwrapped the game packages for sale in retail stores.

(2) Later, we hooked up with publishers to distribute our games, but we were still independent.

(3) Years later, I have also worked at game compaines where the publisher had a lot more influence (also acting as 'producer').

My understanding of id Software, is they never surrendered control beyond (2).  (I don't know how things stand after their recent acquisition by Zenimax, but that is recent history.)


Regards,

quadz

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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2010, 09:13:31 PM »
Of my own curious nature, how many of you play quake and "NO" other FPS? My question would then be why? What makes Quake so superior to the others in your opinion?

Most of us around here play QUAKE2, not Quake. I'd think someone so ready to jump everyone's shit about reading and comprehension would be a stickler for details when writing their own posts. :sarcastic:

I play it because of the low system requirements. It runs pretty smooth. Compared to other FPS games I've tried online, there isn't much video lag. Also, I like the "community" here. That would consist of both the constant location and running of the servers here as well as the group of folks who always play here. The messageboard and IRC channel make it even better. It makes communicating and sharing things with other players a lot easier than just tracking people down when they happen to hop on a server like you'd have to do other places. Other Quake2 servers come and go, but thanks to Quadz and his benevolently open wallet, Tastyspleen is pretty much guaranteed to always be here and always have the same IP. I also enjoy the interesting physics of the game. Movement is one of many acquired skills that can vary from player to player.
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Offline VaeVictis

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2010, 10:15:37 PM »
this guy isnt even worth the time to argue :/ he is obviously just a casual gamer that thinks pretty games and puzzles are the way to go... -.- wtf?

quake isnt about graphics, although id software has made HUGE leaps for the industry a lot more than once :)

and if you like puzzles, ok? do you understand quake game dynamics enough to understand it takes a lot more mental power than your too easy riddles and puzzles from rpg action/adventure games? i play games like devil may cry, final fantasy, tomb raider, all that stuff, i like em they are slightly entertaining, but none of them take near the brain power let alone the practice or skill that quake does :)

If you watch two good players play eachother in quake, you arent even seeing half of whats really going on, timing items, making constant decisions, really REALLY trying to outsmart your opponent, that added with years of practice to hone skills such as aim and movement to a point you dont even have to think about it so you CAN focus on stuff like timing and prediction just sets the game apart, some times a 1v1 will play out more like a game of chess strategy wise

i know it may be true with other games as well, but very VERY much so with the quake series.... there is noobs out there, that will never win a match, then there is noobs out there that will win them by 20 frags in 1v1, and there is people who will beat those noobs by 20 frags, and then more that will beat that last group of people by 20 frags, and more that will beat even that group by 20 frags, and it just keeps going and going... You cannot even understand the unimaginable skill ceiling such a dynamic game like quake has, there is people that will play for a decade, and still never even come close to touching the top

Some fps games are really point and shoot *cough*cod*cough* and they are just a pathetic excuse of a game in the industry.... A game like quake? if point and shoot is all you have, youll lose every single time :) so dont start to think that any puzzle game with even come close to how much quake makes you think

keep in mind though, my view may be slightly different from others because i mostly play 1v1, ffa and instagib players might just point and shoot occasionally but some times its kinda fun to just have some simple minded point and click fun :P
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Offline yahoo

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Re: Why Quake
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2010, 10:33:38 PM »
Of my own curious nature, how many of you play quake and "NO" other FPS? My question would then be why? What makes Quake so superior to the others in your opinion?

I play q2 only coz its the only one i got lately and I kinda comfy bout it. I tried others like AVP, UT etc but like I said Its a matter of preference.
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