Traps

[peewee_RotA]

I find it troubling that 2 players can come to the consensus that railing is the only legitimate skill in an expansion that amounts to a weapons mod.
 

[Whirlingdervish]

Well peewee, I'd say that you're taking the statements the wrong way if that's what you got from them.


It's not that the railgun requires all that much skill to use or that there is no skill required to be effective at an FFA weapons mod.

It's more that using the railgun and every weapon other than the trap requires precise aim in order to be effective. Aiming is a skill required in pretty much every deathmatch mod if you want to be effective and get frags.

Due to the lack of BFG, there is really only one weapon in the whole mod that can be fired blindly and still consistently rack up frags. It's increased frequency of spawning in the last year has led to it becoming more consistent in it's ability to earn kills without any real skill increase in the players who use it and this has led some people to not bother playing the mod as much because of the lack of balance, and it's caused others to just exploit it over and over and not bother aiming at all.

Imagine if the DM server had 3 BFGs added on each map. There would be a very similar effect.

A small change to affect the balance of the traps in relation to the thought and skill required to use all of the other weapons and get a kill might be all that is needed to prod people in the direction of more aim-based play. Those that don't adapt their playstyle to accomodate the slight change and continue to spam traps all over and do nothing but try to control that one item spawn will not see as good of a return on their investment and might consider an alternate method of getting kills: improving their moving and shooting skills.


Dont get me wrong: I think traps can be used skillfully, and I've thrown them very accurately quite a few times to get a spectacular kill out of a dodging enemy that I was battling with. My gripe is that so few other people even consider using them like this and instead just spam bunches of them and camp the item spawn poorly, which leads to less challenge and less fun for everyone involved

 

[peewee_RotA]

I'm not saying that the trap is not cheap. I'm all for destructible traps and I believe I started a similar thread once requesting similar changes.

I'm just saying that the purpose of connecting to Xatrix is to fry some poor bastard with the phalanx and try to actually get a kill with the ripper. People who even bother picking up the railgun are pretty much missing the point of the mod. You might as well go play regular DM.

[|iR|Focalor]

There are only 3 additional weapons in the mod, and the folks who love traps were the ones who brought up the issue of "railers" not liking traps. It just so happens that the railgun is one of hardest weapons to consistently use effectively. Take my word for it, anyone who can sling a railgun well is more than likely going to be even MORE effective with the other weapons. I'd rather use a chaingun, to be honest. Not only that, but they are probably pretty good with gameplay tactics and movement as well. It would piss the Xatrix, quote, "regulars", off if I were to make it my number 1 priority to always patrol the trap spawns. Since I can aim, I'm more likely to kill anyone trying to get to it. I don't like playing that way, it's boring as hell. But I might decide to be a real dickhead if I have to. Watch how fast the server empties THEN.

[console]

Got a chance to play for a bit... conceptually it seems to be working out roughly how i'd pictured it... on smaller maps with lots of action, being able to shoot traps is totally irrelevant - there's just no time for it.

But if one is stuck in a trap, on a larger map away from all the action, there is time to shoot it.  But the penalty of course is it takes a lot of ammo and you lose some health when it explodes.

In terms of the overall gameplay I don't think it changes much, it just adds an extra option when you are stuck in "solitare mode".


HOWEVER: The server did crash.  There is a bug (I think maybe related to holding a trap until it explodes in-hand.)

Stack dump (13 frames):
00: ./quake2 [0x807660b]
01: xatrix/gamei386.real.so(fire_trap+0x2c6) [0xe01ad6ce]
02: xatrix/gamei386.real.so(weapon_trap_fire+0xef) [0xe01b6ecb]
03: xatrix/gamei386.real.so(Weapon_Trap+0x355) [0xe01b9afd]
04: xatrix/gamei386.real.so(Think_Weapon+0x82) [0xe01ba942]
05: xatrix/gamei386.real.so(ClientBeginServerFrame+0x11f) [0xe01b32cb]
06: xatrix/gamei386.real.so(G_RunFrame+0xec) [0xe01a1c40]
07: /home/quake/servers/quake2/./xatrix/gamei386.so(G_RunFrame+0x346) [0xe01f9db6]
08: ./quake2 [0x806a4c6]
09: ./quake2 [0x805053d]
10: ./quake2 [0x80762a7]
11: /lib32/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xd3) [0xe0488ea3]
12: ./quake2 [0x8049ce1]

.... will investigate...


Regards,

quadz

[console]

HOWEVER: The server did crash.  There is a bug (I think maybe related to holding a trap until it explodes in-hand.)

Fixed.

[SpawnGirl]

TRAPS ARE COOL
 

[mp]

I couldn't make it through two pages of this... sorry.

There is only one (1) change that i would make to traps and it is the ONLY one you should want too...

That is to make them appear randomly because all of the battles center around their location.

I used to play on a server that had (runes) that would appear what seemed like random, or if not, their location was always a surprise. That would make it alot more fun to me.

Along the same lines one could be permanent while others are random or something like that.

O.K one more. It would be pretty cool if something we picked up allowed traps to stick on walls and ceilings or a "special" sticky trap.

max

[|iR|Focalor]

...or you could play WOD-X.

[SpawnGirl]

TRAPS ARE COOL
 

[ToxicMonkey^MZC]

Impressive update to traps.  A full chaingun will kill one - finally I find a use for that gun
You can shoot rockets just past the trap so the trap takes damage but you don't...tricky that

I still don't like them, mainly because of the way they are whored by certain players, but I find this compromise very satisfactory.

[console]

Impressive update to traps.

thanx

You can shoot rockets just past the trap so the trap takes damage but you don't...tricky that

Yes - works with phalanx, too...

I find this compromise very satisfactory.

Wait... if ToxicMonkey approves of the play balance, .... this must indicate a missed opportunity for him to squeal, "sad trap exploder fucktard!"

What can we do to add an extra element to this trap code that will make ToxicMonkey most unhappy when he falls prey to it?

[{TNP}Dukie]

I still don't like them, mainly because of the way they are whored by certain players,

I can't stand trap whores!

[SpawnGirl]

I still don't like them, mainly because of the way they are whored by certain players,

I can't stand trap whores!

 

[|iR|Focalor]

I still don't like them, mainly because of the way they are whored by certain players,

I can't stand trap whores!

I can't stand you either.