Handicap feature, and +noobquad setting

[|iR|Focalor]

[peewee_RotA]

Here's the zip with the source for both noobquad and handicap settings

cvars are:

sv_handicap 1
sv_noobquad 1

New command:
handicap

usage: handicap #
   (example: handicap 75)

All of my changes are signed with //peewee and additional comments

You should probably winmerge the changes for ease of implementation.


Comments on the changes:

I did not work on implementation. I'm not all that sure about how wallfly works and am not well versed with doing things to clients using the !stuff commands. The handicap command is usable by clients and exists in g_cmds.c, this may or may not be the desired method of setting this. I also did not work on adding a way to display handicap settings on the scoreboard. I think that both of those ideas need further discussion.

The way that noobquad works is that every kill the game runs a checkwinner function. Check winner determines the high score and then flags any player who matches the high score as a winner. (so in the event of a tie, there are multiple people restricted by the noobquad setting.) A person in the lead cannot pickup the quad and a person possessing the quad that gains the lead immediately drops the quad.

The handicap works very basically. Handicap is a percentage that cannot be below 25 or above 100. Players default to 100 (normal). The handicap only accepts integers. So handicap 26, handicap 75, and handicap 97 are examples of valid settings. A string or a float will resolve to 0. There is a special case that if a player enters either 0, a float, or a string as an argument to the handicap command then it will retain it's current setting. So if a player set to 75 accidentally types handicap eightyfour then it will remain at 75. Also players with handicaps do normal damage to any player with a lesser or equal handicap. So if a player is at 75 then he will do 75% damage to players at 76 through 100. Any player with a handicap of 75 or less will take normal damage from that player. Also environmental damage is excluded from the handicap calculation. Lastly players who have a handicap and damage themselves will take normal damage. (otherwise there would be an exploit to rocket jump with a low handicap and then set it back)

[console]

Here's the zip with the source for both noobquad and handicap settings

Thanks...!

Here are the diffs as seen by CVS:

http://tastyspleen.net/~quake2/q2-ssp/noobquad_peewee.diff.txt

Appears to have compiled fine on linux.

[peewee_RotA]

Here's the zip with the source for both noobquad and handicap settings

Thanks...!

Here are the diffs as seen by CVS:

http://tastyspleen.net/~quake2/q2-ssp/noobquad_peewee.diff.txt

Appears to have compiled fine on linux.

NP, 

Sorry about all the needless entries on the diff though. I'm sure I had it convert quite a few files that used unix line breaks with the windows CR/LF

[Alpha-Prime(CW)]

While I appreciate the ingenuity and talent that goes into devising a mod like this, I must side with those who say "why?" the point of a multiplayer game is to get better at it through practice, hardwork, practice, dedication and some practice, all of us starting on a level playing field is the only way to go, if we start pandering to people who don't want to take the time to get good at something where does it end? why don't we award 2 frags for people who have the handicap set to beginner? or give them infinite ammo or spawn with the BFG and quad damage?,
How much bending over do you want to do to get these people (who still won't be satisfied) to play?.
I enjoy playing chess, when I started playing I met a good player who beat me 16 games straight till I beat him by accident 1 time, did this make me cry that I wanted him to play without a queen?, No, I kept at it till I could win at least half the time, the moral of this story?,
'If you don't care enough to get good, go find something else to do"


Still thanks for thinking of and making the mod, Its just not one I think is for me, I'd rather get beaten then win a hollow victory.

[peewee_RotA]

While I appreciate the ingenuity and talent that goes into devising a mod like this, I must side with those who say "why?" the point of a multiplayer game is to get better at it through practice, hardwork, practice, dedication and some practice, all of us starting on a level playing field is the only way to go, if we start pandering to people who don't want to take the time to get good at something where does it end? why don't we award 2 frags for people who have the handicap set to beginner? or give them infinite ammo or spawn with the BFG and quad damage?,
How much bending over do you want to do to get these people (who still won't be satisfied) to play?.
I enjoy playing chess, when I started playing I met a good player who beat me 16 games straight till I beat him by accident 1 time, did this make me cry that I wanted him to play without a queen?, No, I kept at it till I could win at least half the time, the moral of this story?,
'If you don't care enough to get good, go find something else to do"


Still thanks for thinking of and making the mod, Its just not one I think is for me, I'd rather get beaten then win a hollow victory.

I think you are missing both the original reason for this, and how it functions. The handicap does not let any player instantly gain an advantage by setting it high. It only allows better players to CHOOSE to take a disadvantage by setting it lower. It is entirely voluntary and exists to provide a greater challenge to anyone willing to accept it. Is it not uncommon to hear "I can beat you with my hands tied behind my back" or "I can do this blindfolded"? Don't we already have a player named "No Sound" who purposely plays without any sound? (as do I, but that is another story)

By your understanding, every person with a high ping obviously has no level playing field and should just stop playing. Bye disco, spawn girl, and anyone from europe! Nice knowing you. It gets back to the fundamental understanding. Only a certain amount of players (albeit the loudest members on the forums) are playing for the purpose of being over competitive. There are also a group of players that don't care about being the best. You're developing a mod. I think you should know the best that if you play your mod servers over competitively, that it is very hard to get new players to join. If you won't allow a player time to learn a new feature, they are unlikely to want to and will just give up.

Why do they want to learn the new feature? Is it because knowing all of the features makes them better at the mod? Or is it perhaps fun to explore all of the new possibilities, and getting better is only an affect rather than a cause? There are quite a few people that play just to have fun and have no problem going easy on the newbies. We play on vanilla. Stop by and say hi some time. We'll leave the light on for ya!

[Whirlingdervish]

what I'm not understanding here, is why this is expected to work as planned...

The better players don't need a handicap system to put up ridiculous stats, and dont play for stats, and their choice of using a newbier setting is still going to dictate the scoreboard when the game ends, no matter how nerfed the game is for the actual newbies.

As is, they could choose NOT to rape the crap out of everyone who moves within the limits imposed by the game.
They currently do not do this.

If it's a choice, they're going to choose to win, like they already do, by practicing their game and killing everything that moves in FFA.

Essentially you should just make a server with a banlist for all the decent players and save yourself some time and effort.
It'll be empty like ethics was.



Unless there is a super newbie default setting like I mentioned, it doesnt get easier for the ones who feel they need it, and it just MIGHT be tougher for the ones who aren't whining, ONLY if they choose to give themself an uneven playing field so some whiners can get on the scoreboard.

I'm pretty sure by now, tho, that we all know that you can't make a whiner stop whining by letting them have their way.

They'll just find something else, like the quad or the invul to bitch about, and when they cant get on the scoreboard even with the good players using a handicap, they'll cry "Hax!" or "you must have no life because you're winning!"

[peewee_RotA]

I'll use it
 
 

The purpose is not to force people, or make people feel obligated to use it. The purpose is to have fun. I think that it would be fun. It's a better option than playing 3 maps in a row with only using a shotgun. I could challenge myself to win at 50% with a rail instead.

Selfishly I made it for my own use 

[Whirlingdervish]

aaaahhh! gotcha.

I do a similar thing to challenge myself at q2 but I call it "drinking heavily".

[jägermonsta]

well that's not very quake 2 vanilla...

[peewee_RotA]

Lol you missed that part of the conversation Jager...


I honestly think that we should have a vanilla2 server to test things out. Actually it should be called Chocolate or CookiesAndCream. Mintchocolatechip isn't out of the question either.

[playboy]

vote +noobquad tastyspleen.net

[PANTONE 7717C]

Not really on topic but it does have to do with experimenting with new settings. I once threw out an idea of making a scoring system (for TS500 or as a seperate mod even) that subtracts your deaths from your score in realtime, so when someone frags you it's like he is stealing from your score.

http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=10697.msg113386#msg113386
The idea was/is not to try to accomodate anyone, but to make it harder to reach the fraglimit and hopefully make ffa games more interesting for those who are in it for the frags, who like to go after the leader's ass and win by playing an efficient game, not necessarily a "hahhah" game. Although...  I would love the idea of focussing on the scoreboard leader with the intention to hurt his score and actually slow him down a little, or at least try. IMO that would be competitive AND totally fun. Any takers?

[|iR|Focalor]

Yes indeed.

[console]

I honestly think that we should have a vanilla2 server to test things out.

Been in crunch mode at work but I expect to put the mod on the vanilla2 server this weekend...