ADD ME ON STEAM

[Mya]

please?

msmya

[:iR:goatkilla]

whats that steamyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy? sounds so good

[The Happy Friar]

but steam = virtual herpes!  You want to help the spread of virtual herpes?!?!?!      

 

[[BTF] Reflex]

Will never be on steam...

I paid 5 dollars for an unopened halflife one,  steam tells me the cd-key is already in use.
To activate mine, I need to send in my cd covers PLUS a ten dollar fee.

Halflife 2 had already been out by the time I had purchased the first one.
Just seemed a bit unfair,  paying an additional ten dollars to play a bargan bin game.


Rant over,  point being I'll just catch ya on here Mya    

(Hugs)

[peewee_RotA]

I paid 5 dollars for an unopened halflife one,  steam tells me the cd-key is already in use.
To activate mine, I need to send in my cd covers PLUS a ten dollar fee.

So $5 game, $10 charge, plus postage? I'm sorry but if they expect you to pay over 300% more for their security flaws then they can just blow it out their ass.

#@$%#%$ers

 

LOL sorry those kinds of things really tick me off.

[quadz]

So $5 game, $10 charge, plus postage? I'm sorry but if they expect you to pay over 300% more for their security flaws then they can just blow it out their ass.

I completely agree that the $10 charge was outrageous in this context.

Separate from that, I wouldn't be inclined to call a purloined key a security flaw that is the fault of the developer.  Keygen software developed by warez hackers essentially works by inventing valid keys out of thin air, which can potentially collide with keys in unopened shrink-wrapped packages.

I've been developing desktop software applications including games for over 20 years now, and software piracy has always forced us to walk a fine line beween trying to institute measures to curb the piracy a bit, without introducing inconveniences that piss off the legit users.  (In the final analysis it sucks for both the developers and the legit users.)

In this case, though, Valve should have accepted proof-of-purchase without tacking on an extra fee.  That was really dumb.


Regards,

[peewee_RotA]

Separate from that, I wouldn't be inclined to call a purloined key a security flaw that is the fault of the developer.

Is it the fault of the purchaser? Fault may be too strong of a word, but responsibility is certainly the right one.

[[BTF]Sigma]

There's a tough call right there.

How does the developer know the person calling in is legit and didn't just sell the key after buying it. In this case it's the unfortunate responsibility of the user to prove they are innocent. Blame all the scammers that ruined it for the legit people.

In your case Flex you need to tell Valve to check when that CD-Key was registered and show them your proof of purchase and let the retailer know as well. That should be sufficient evidence to prove that you are legit and out of good faith Valve should allow you a replacement KEY.

[The Happy Friar]

valve wants $$ to say you have the correct key.  Most companies say "e-mail us a copy of the receipt & a picture of the disk in the same image" for proof.

[[BTF]Sigma]

I think valve wants the $$ as a processing fee to cover issuing a new key and banning that original key. They should be digging into their own pockets rather than trying to fleece from Flex.

I think he needs to physically write a letter of complaint and mention in it that he will be contacting the proper channels to state his claim that valve is not addressing a legitimate claim.

[quadz]

Separate from that, I wouldn't be inclined to call a purloined key a security flaw that is the fault of the developer.

Is it the fault of the purchaser? Fault may be too strong of a word, but responsibility is certainly the right one.

I think we've established we already agree Valve handled this poorly.

That's why I was attempting to narrow my comments to the specific technology involved, and how I disagree that the existence of warez keygen programs represents a security flaw on the part of the developer.

Anti-piracy schemes are by nature imperfect... and as previously stated, a bummer for all involved.

For the current app I'm developing, the company has the advantage of being the sole vendor of the software.  So if something goes wrong with the registration, and the customer calls us, we have the ability to verify their purchase in our records.  A larger company selling software through distributors has to fall back on some more tedious proof-of-purchase verification method...

I think valve wants the $$ as a processing fee to cover issuing a new key and banning that original key. They should be digging into their own pockets rather than trying to fleece from Flex.

Agreed...

[peewee_RotA]

That's why I was attempting to narrow my comments to the specific technology involved, and how I disagree that the existence of warez keygen programs represents a security flaw on the part of the developer.

I think that that is exactly what it represents. Valve created security. Hackers found a flaw and exploited it. Valve improved and sought new anti-piracy techniques to avoid this flaw. Hackers found a way to exploit another flaw in this improved scheme. Security that doesn't work is flawed. I think it is a very clear definition.

Like the history of weapons and armor, one is improved causing the other to become obsolete. We don't stop saying obsolete because the armorer doesn't like the term. It's life, and it's ridiculous to expect the user to pay more because of your outdated security. If they really cared, they would update the security and develop a new method to verify users, or realize how old that game is and by-pass it all-together.

[The Happy Friar]

I find it very unlikely someone used a keygen to register something on steam.  someone typing in random keys should send a red flag up somewhere @ valve.  BUT... I requested my Steam account password three times over a week ago & haven't gotten it yet.  Not in my spam mail either.  And that is the e-mail I used.   

just check out their BBB report.

Yes, it's an "A" but it's an A because they've had quite a few complaints they've had to resolve & they did.  Worth knowing that they had their name changed on the BBB from Valve to Steam.  It used to be Valve but someone there must of wanted to deflect complaints from the company to steam itself.  Strange how a company can say their software is the legal target of people's anger, not the programmer (important to note that microsoft has a separate file for the XBox stuff & the company itself.  Something Valve lacks)

Our id has no current file because it doesn't have enough irate customers to complain to the BBB.

[quadz]

it's ridiculous to expect the user to pay more

Again, this has never been in dispute... by anyone here...

That's why I was attempting to narrow my comments to the specific technology involved, and how I disagree that the existence of warez keygen programs represents a security flaw on the part of the developer.

I think that that is exactly what it represents. Valve created security. Hackers found a flaw and exploited it. Valve improved and sought new anti-piracy techniques to avoid this flaw. Hackers found a way to exploit another flaw in this improved scheme. Security that doesn't work is flawed. I think it is a very clear definition.

Software registration schemes aren't related to security in the traditional sense.  For example, when we type in the serial number and activate Windows, this is a separate concept from security flaws in the operating system, which are patched by the Windows Update mechanism or service pack installs.

When someone makes a keygen for Windows, we don't label this a security flaw in the operating system.

This would be akin to saying when someone makes a wallhack that is not detected by anticheat, that anticheat.dll has a security problem.  This overloads the term 'security' in a way that muddles the issue.

A real security flaw in anticheat (or Windows, or Steam) would be if a hacker could exploit it to gain access to your computer.  Not that somebody made an undetectable wallhack (or keygen).

Terminology aside--and again, much like anticheat--there is no known perfect solution to the client-side software registration problem.  Although the landscape is changing a little now that internet connections are more ubiquitous.  (Making available a few additional, yet still imperfect techniques.)

If they really cared, they would update the security and develop a new method to verify users, or realize how old that game is and by-pass it all-together.

I agree that the game is old enough that they should be more relaxed about the issue.  (It is far from obvious to me there is any means to significantly redevlop the registration mechanism of a shrink wrapped product, however, to make it more foolproof.  Best they could presumably do is tell their server to ignore duplicate keys because, as you say, it's an old game.)

I find it very unlikely someone used a keygen to register something on steam.

My understanding was that Reflex had purchased a shrink-wrap copy of Half-Life, and when it tried to validate its registration on the internet during the install, its key was already taken.


Regards,

[krez]

Will never be on steam...

I paid 5 dollars for an unopened halflife one,  steam tells me the cd-key is already in use.
To activate mine, I need to send in my cd covers PLUS a ten dollar fee.

Halflife 2 had already been out by the time I had purchased the first one.
Just seemed a bit unfair,  paying an additional ten dollars to play a bargan bin game.


Rant over,  point being I'll just catch ya on here Mya    

(Hugs)

hehe, back in the day when cs was in version 1-1.3 long before steam, me and my friends would go to hastings and open a halflife box, write the cd key down then leave.  you could easily change the cd key in your registry to get around bans on servers. 

i will say cs has the most nazi, ban happy admins of any game i have ever seen.