stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual

[Art]

I'm only offended if a black person uses it.

[playboy]

stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual please...

I vote a new smile icon for stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual PLZ

[Whirlingdervish]

Can we still call each other crackers or has the super special censorship clause managed to undermine that ability as well?





BTW, after looking through my IRC logs of last night's debacle that caused this thread, I noticed a few things:

1. Gator seems to be the central figure in the supposed "majority" of people he's mentioned but never identified, who dislike the nastiness in some people's posts and cant stand the use of certain words even when they aren't used in an offensive manner.

He made some statements that effectively caused all of that hooplah in the channel, and they were made because of his feelings on how we should all speak to each other. Feelings that don't necessarily mesh with the actual RULES.

[21:11] <[BTF]Gator> i simply stated the rules

This is not true.

You said this:

[21:01] <[BTF]Gator> first, refrain from using that term in here.  its not a request.

You didn't simply state the rules. YOU NEVER STATED THE RULE AT ALL. You came off like a dick by interupting a black guy and telling him that he can't say "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" before he even got 10 words into what he was saying, and you didn't answer his question after leading into your little comment like you were going to.

You pretty much just said "Stop. I dont care what you are saying except for that one word which offends me for no legitimate reason as you are not using it in a derogatory or inflamatory manner."

2. The crap could have ended quickly if people were willing to discuss the issue (the fairness of how one rule was being used to censor someone for little reason) instead of just getting on their high horse and devoicing people and copy/pasting the rules at them.

[21:14] <Scumsberg> Yeah I'm just saying, seems like he's getting shot down because he might say "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual."
[21:14] <[BTF]Gator> i've asked nicely to not say that several times
[21:14] <[BTF]Gator> warnings are at an end


You never asked once. You told, and you weren't nice about it. Check the logs.


[21:15] <Scumsberg> wait so you're saying we can't even discuss the issue like adults
[21:15] <Scumsberg> the rules are that strict huh
[21:16] <[BTF]Gator> it was stated at the beginning it was unacceptable
[21:16] <[BTF]Gator> lots of other words you could use
[21:16] <[BTF]Gator> "bro" "man" "aquaintance"
[21:16] <fulgore> yea
[21:16] <fulgore> except
[21:16] <fulgore> the word i choose to use
[21:16] <fulgore> is stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual
[21:16] <fulgore> therefore
[21:16] <fulgore> stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual
[21:16] * [BTF]Gator sets mode: -v fulgore
[21:16] <Scumsberg> lol
[21:16] <[BTF]Gator> therefore you lose the right to speak in here

[21:17] <notkami> why is it a fair rule
[21:17] <Scumsberg> i'm sure everyone's real offended
[21:17] <notkami> who does it protect?
[21:17] <Scumsberg> he's protecting a black guy from himself

[21:17] <notkami> whats the use of having a pointless rule?
[21:17] <[BTF]Gator> lol
[21:17] <[BTF]Gator> to attempt to keep things civil and respectable

[21:18] <notkami> but then shouldn't we be moderated for saying "fuck" which is much worse than the word fulgore's saying?  or hell profanity in general?  most people consider those to be non civil.
[21:18] <notkami> why this word?

Here Kami attempts to do what fulgore and scumsberg were trying to do: Discuss the application of that rule in this instance and if it was fairly applied. No 3rd party is willing to agree that they see a point of view other than Gator's tho since he's the one with his finger on the button.

This follows:

[21:20] * [BTF]Gator sets mode: +v fulgore
[21:20] <fulgore> giving me the v back doesn't change anything
[21:21] <fulgore> you remain a faggot (bundle of sticks)
[21:21] <fulgore> enjoy
[21:21] <[BTF]Gator> 10-4 good buddy
[21:21] <fulgore> 10-4 my stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual
[21:21] * fulgore was kicked by [BTF]Gator (racist remarks are unacceptable as described earlier)

3.

Q: How is a black guy calling a white guy " my stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" racist?
A: It's not and you know it.

Right here you kicked a guy for just saying "my stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" which translates to "my friend" and you called it racist for him to do so, knowing full well that he is black and you are not.

Later in the thread, Jehar (who is white) uses the word stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual, after you have already made your "warnings" in full view and kicked one person for saying it. Jehar (who is also in BTF) recieves no punishment at all for it, when the other guy was kicked for using it in the same non-offensive manner.

I suppose that if you do reply to this, it will be to say that he got kicked while jehar didn't because he said it repeatedly, but that doesn't sidestep the fact that  none of his usage of the word was in an intentionally offensive or derogatory manner from the start, and that intent is a major part of the actual rule.


4.

[21:29] <[BTF]Jehar> Lordy.
[21:29] <[BTF]Jehar> that was just insane.
[21:29] <quadz> :/
[21:30] <[BTF]Jehar> How come nobody saw your Draconian Iron-Fisted Rules as extremely tongue-in-cheek?
[21:30] <[BTF]Jehar> People took that way too seriously.
[21:30] <quadz>
[21:30] <[BTF]Jehar> All it is is a re-stating of the things we've been going by for years already.
[21:30] <quadz> dunno
[21:30] <[BTF]Gator> they paint it they way they want to for their own entertainment and purposes
[21:31] <NGL-TwYsTeD> nazis all of you
[21:31] <[BTF]Gator> it has little to do with the words as written but more as to the words as filtered through thier own egos/minds
[21:31] <NGL-TwYsTeD> <3
[21:31] <NGL-TwYsTeD> jk
[21:31] <[BTF]Gator>
[21:31] <[BTF]Gator> <3
[21:31] <[BTF]Gator> it serves thier purposes of entertaining themselves to have a good battle
[21:32] <[BTF]Gator> problem is, im afraid its a one sided battle, i don't think anyone is taking a common ground of thought with them to join them on the battle field

[21:33] <notkami> gator, if you would like to defend your point of view with the word, feel free to post in my thread
[21:34] <[BTF]Gator> i havent gotten to it yet, but there isnt much to defend or debate

[21:34] <notkami> i disagree
[21:34] <[BTF]Gator> i'll read it, for sure
[21:34] <notkami> but i'll keep it in the thread
[21:35] <[BTF]Jehar> Personally, I don't think people saying stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual is a problem, as it's common slang in many parts. However, in light of the recent flame-wars that have been occuring, it's safer to clamp down on things for the time being.


THIS IS BULLSHIT. Gator apparently sees no problem with his actions, blames un-named persons for just trying to start shit about the forum rules when he actually started the shit in question by jumping on fulgore (who didnt know anything about the new forum rules), and then makes the statement that there's nothing to debate even tho multiple people were saying there was something to debate. (one of whom got kicked and the other left the channel to avoid being ridden over rough shod by Gator)

5.

[21:36] <[BTF]Gator> feel free to discuss it, just dont use the actual word
[21:36] <[BTF]Gator> this is not anything new here

[21:37] <notkami> just because its not anything new doesn't mean it should stay
[21:37] <[BTF]Gator> this does seem to be people reacting or perhaps over reacting a bit to a minor change
[21:37] <[BTF]Gator> and pushing the limits to see where they lie perhaps?
[21:37] <notkami> discussion and debate is a good way to clean rules and laws
[21:37] <[BTF]Gator> it wont change while i am here.
[21:38] <[BTF]Gator> im 38, bide your time
[21:38] <notkami> to strengthen good ones and remove old ones that have no use
[21:38] <[BTF]Gator> what is your age?
[21:38] <notkami> i am 20
[21:38] <[BTF]Gator> maybe you can get a few good years in
[21:38] <[BTF]Gator> yes, you should get a good 15 years in of using that word in here then
[21:38] <[BTF]Gator> likely around 2060 or so
[21:40] <[BTF]Gator> i guess i would share the idea that this channel is just a single channel, for the servers
[21:40] <notkami> that doesn't seem very reasonable :\  you're saying if you can't be convinced that its not a racist word and that the whole community doesn't find it offense and agrees that the word shouldn't be censored, you'll do everything you can to make sure it remains censored?
[21:40] <[BTF]Gator> there are many, many clan channels that have thier own rules

Here, Gator essentially says that no matter what the public opinion is, as long as he has some power, he will make sure that his will is done: black guys wont be able to innocently say stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual without being jumped on out of the blue, because HE finds it offensive. He also sticks to his guns that this whole situation was blown out of proportion to serve the agenda of "some people".



FRANKLY THIS SORT OF ADMINNING WITHOUT THINKING, NO MATTER HOW WELL MEANING IT IS, SCARES ME.

[Arm0r]

didn't see this kind of shit coming 

[Kami]

im more talking about the casual "sup my niggas".

And I'm saying it matters who's doing the talking.

If Chris Rock wants to get on here, he can damn well use "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" or "niggazzzzz!" or "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" etc...  It's Chris Rock, ffs!

As for your friend who "is a bit rude", and who "does it for entertainment and accepts his punishments", I see no reason why I should trust his motives.

as for second, while thats nice for real life (and honestly i doubt that happens anymore), this is the internet.

What does that really mean?  Over time, the ways people connect over the internet are only going to become more sophisticated.  Either way there's still a person on the other end of the connection.  I don't aspire to treat people differently over the internet than I would in person.


Regards,

regardless of how you yourself treat people regardless of being directly or indirectly present, it happens anyways.  the general air of discussion tends to be less personal, so people generally view it much less personally.  rather than idealistically viewing how we should be acting on the internet we should be realistic.

[jägermonsta]

hmm when did tastyspleen merge into btf anyhow  

[Scumsberg]

Jehar was practically begging (asking multiple times) for people who would be interested in guest commentating on the shoutcast or helping with Tastyspleen advertising.  Fulgore sprang to my mind initially because A: he's funny (subjective, but that can't be discussed since he got shat on too quick to be given a chance), B: he has a longass history in Quake 2, C: he has actual experience in being a commentator for Capcom games over the radio.

Tastyspleen Shoutcast reminds me of EnemyTerritory.tv casts, done in the same professional 'standard' style.  This definitely isn't Fulgore's style - he's a lot more fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants comedy style.  I thought, personally, it would make a good contrast with Jehar's professional 'stiffness' and might attract more people (or another demographic) to the shoutcast itself.  Let's be honest, Quake 2 has been a dying game for a long, long time.   Every year more and more mods die, more and more people leave for other games, and the community shrinks further and further.  Bringing in more people is a difficult thing to do when you're trying to balance accessibility with attractability.  Tastyspleen's well within its rights to reject anyone they want, but in this case, I think you guys fucked yourself out of probably the only person with experience who would have applied because you couldn't handle the word 'stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual' being used by a black man.

Pro-tip: he doesn't need white guys on the internet defending him from himself.

[[BTF]Jehar]

All that is beside the point. He didn't have the requisite software in order to cast, and to be honest, I'm not prone to let someone broadcast who I don't know and who is being rather uppity and confrontive about being let on. Besides which, there wasn't much to cast on last night, as the game got cancled. I'd definitely be open to letting him on in the future, but I don't know why people got so offended when it happened last night. Also, I wasn't begging anybody for anything, it was mostly a shoutout to the likes of Peewee or those who have community events they would like to have covered.

[Scumsberg]

u mad?

[[BTF]Jehar]

No, I was just making the case that last night was not an opportune time to press for shoutcast assistence, though I appreciate the thought.

[Art]

i personally have never seen 'stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual' as being a racist term.  the racist term would be the -er one.  for one a racist person is never caught using 'stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual' as in and of itself its not derogatory.  black people themselves use it all the time.  100% of the time, when a racist person talks to a black person, they use -er.

secondly, its become a part of our english language as slang, whether we like it or not.  while it most definitely remains light profanity, there's no racist undertone that it's used with.  again, you see a racist undertone with -er, and not stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual.  infact, as far as slang goes, it usually just means buddy.  like "what's up my stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual".  i'm not sure how 'buddy' can be used derogatorily to offend someone.

so again i ask, why is stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual racist?

99% of black people in my area don't pronounce the "r" at the end of any word, so around here (at least)they're really saying stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual when they say "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual". Black peoples non pronunciation of the letter "R" is the only reason "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" exsists.

[Whirlingdervish]

i personally have never seen 'stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual' as being a racist term.  the racist term would be the -er one.  for one a racist person is never caught using 'stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual' as in and of itself its not derogatory.  black people themselves use it all the time.  100% of the time, when a racist person talks to a black person, they use -er.

secondly, its become a part of our english language as slang, whether we like it or not.  while it most definitely remains light profanity, there's no racist undertone that it's used with.  again, you see a racist undertone with -er, and not stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual.  infact, as far as slang goes, it usually just means buddy.  like "what's up my stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual".  i'm not sure how 'buddy' can be used derogatorily to offend someone.

so again i ask, why is stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual racist?

99% of black people in my area don't pronounce the "r" at the end of any word, so around here (at least)they're really saying stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual when they say "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual". Black peoples non pronunciation of the letter "R" is the only reason "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" exsists.

now THAT sounds racist!

 

[Arm0r]

now THAT sounds racist!

 

whatchu talkin bout cracka? 

[Art]

99% of black people in my area don't pronounce the "r" at the end of any word, so around here (at least)they're really saying stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual when they say "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual". Black peoples non pronunciation of the letter "R" is the only reason "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" exsists.

now THAT sounds racist!

 

By what definition
 

[[BTF]5antana]

Well, time for the blackest member of TS to speak on this "sensitive" issue

It's not offensive unless you are in Klan robes, with a burning cross and a black person in a tree, kicking my door down and yelling "Time To die [insert favorite expletive here]!"

Even then I might have a good chuckle, because IT IS JUST A WORD. I find it ironic that white people find it more offensive than black people lol.
That wasn't so hard, was it?

-[BTF]Nigtana