stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual

[Kami]

for some unknown reason the word 'stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual' is a bannable offense on the irc channel; yet going through the many tastyspleen servers people say it all the time and jokingly.  i've personally never seen anyone get offended about it on the servers, but i can't understand why a game being rated m with likewise m-rated rules pertaining to it would have the ops in the chatroom pertaining to the servers get up in arms about a simple word that isn't even close in meaning to its racist counterpart.

i want to do three things with this topic.  i want to discuss this issue surrounding the word, i want to discuss the issue behind  censoring mild profanity, and with the poll i would like to get an idea of how many people may actually be offended by the word. 

perhaps if its found that no one is offended by it, the rule should be overturned on account of a pointless rule.

[console]

This has been discussed numerous times.

Current policy is roughly this:

We generally encourage and foster freedom of speech on our servers.  However we do have a history of disallowing racist speech or hate speech.  Unfortunately this is very hard to define in writing what's OK and what's not.  If someone is showing genuine humor, or is being light and ironic, it might be fine.  If someone is acting like an asshole, probably not.  Still, admins should give at least once warning before taking action.

[21:18:39] <notkami> but then shouldn't we be moderated for saying "fuck" which is much worse than the word fulgore's saying?  or hell profanity in general?  most people consider those to be non civil.
[21:18:46] <notkami> why this word?

http://tastyspleen.net/~quadz/snd/fword.mp3

[Kami]

This has been discussed numerous times.

Current policy is roughly this:

We generally encourage and foster freedom of speech on our servers.  However we do have a history of disallowing racist speech or hate speech.  Unfortunately this is very hard to define in writing what's OK and what's not.  If someone is showing genuine humor, or is being light and ironic, it might be fine.  If someone is acting like an asshole, probably not.  Still, admins should give at least once warning before taking action.

[21:18:39] <notkami> but then shouldn't we be moderated for saying "fuck" which is much worse than the word fulgore's saying?  or hell profanity in general?  most people consider those to be non civil.
[21:18:46] <notkami> why this word?

http://tastyspleen.net/~quadz/snd/fword.mp3

i personally have never seen 'stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual' as being a racist term.  the racist term would be the -er one.  for one a racist person is never caught using 'stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual' as in and of itself its not derogatory.  black people themselves use it all the time.  100% of the time, when a racist person talks to a black person, they use -er.

secondly, its become a part of our english language as slang, whether we like it or not.  while it most definitely remains light profanity, there's no racist undertone that it's used with.  again, you see a racist undertone with -er, and not stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual.  infact, as far as slang goes, it usually just means buddy.  like "what's up my stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual".  i'm not sure how 'buddy' can be used derogatorily to offend someone.

so again i ask, why is stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual racist?

[[BTF]Jehar]

I don't think it's particularly racist, but historically, it gets spammed way too much, and is right up there with EATSHITCOCKSUCKER when someone comes up for a mute on the servers. People spamming stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual 50 times has caused it to obtain a bit of a stigma. So, as a result, it's seen as inflammatory on it's own merits, racism aside.
Also, in light of the recent flame-wars (really really ugly ones), it might be wisest to take a step back from anything overtly inflammatory (yes, that includes saying fuck a lot and cunt\bitch\muffin or whatever), and just speaking plainly so we can all get out of this flame-war-prone period.

[Kami]

I don't think it's particularly racist, but historically, it gets spammed way too much, and is right up there with EATSHITCOCKSUCKER when someone comes up for a mute on the servers. People spamming stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual 50 times has caused it to obtain a bit of a stigma. So, as a result, it's seen as inflammatory on it's own merits, racism aside.
Also, in light of the recent flame-wars (really really ugly ones), it might be wisest to take a step back from anything overtly inflammatory (yes, that includes saying fuck a lot and cunt\bitch\muffin or whatever), and just speaking plainly so we can all get out of this flame-war-prone period.

ok but im not asking what happened around this word that makes it easy to ban, because people seem to have been banned simply for using it.  so that must mean that something about this word is inflammatory / racist in and of itself

and im trying to find out what it is.  again, stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual in modern slang is used as an alternative to buddy.  again, also light profanity, but so is shit, bitch, etc.

i propose that the word stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual has no offensive component whatsoever.

[console]

ok but im not asking what happened around this word that makes it easy to ban, because people seem to have been banned simply for using it.  so that must mean that something about this word is inflammatory / racist in and of itself

BTW, since "context is everything", here's what transpired on the channel right before your friend arrived:

[19:55:19] <UUD-40> fuck you rick
[19:55:23] <[eL]RICK> suck my cock
[19:55:24] <[eL]RICK> stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual
[19:55:52] *** [eL]RICK was kicked by fanny_Zzzz (fanny_Zzzz)
[19:55:53] *** [eL]RICK (~blabla@Electric.Lemmings.on.EnterTheGame.Com) has joined #tastyspleen
[19:55:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v [eL]RICK
[19:55:56] <[eL]RICK> [22:56] <+UUD-40> fuck you to you too sir
[19:56:00] <[eL]RICK> make more sense
[19:56:03] <[eL]RICK> and thanks fanny
[19:56:04] <[eL]RICK> <3
[19:56:08] <fanny_Zzzz> no racial slurs
[19:56:11] <[eL]RICK> stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual
[19:56:16] <fanny_Zzzz> you know better
[19:56:20] <[eL]RICK> stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual
[19:56:27] *** fanny_Zzzz sets mode: +b *!*@*.Lemmings.on.EnterTheGame.Com
[19:56:27] *** [eL]RICK was kicked by fanny_Zzzz (fanny_Zzzz)
[19:57:01] *** RICK (~blabla@d14-69-92-134.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #tastyspleen
[19:57:02] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v RICK
[19:57:02] <RICK> stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual
[19:57:02] <krenZ> thank you
[19:57:11] <RICK> lets take the internet more serious
[19:57:11] <UUD-40> uhohz
[19:57:15] <RICK> for fucks sake
[19:57:16] <RICK> god
[19:57:16] <krenZ> ownd.
[19:57:21] <RICK> krenz whine more
[19:57:24] <RICK> lol
[19:57:25] <krenZ> R1CH = sat.
[19:57:30] <RICK> whine
[19:57:30] <krenZ> RICK
[19:57:34] *** RICK has quit IRC (Quit: [19:59] <+]km[xiszzz> take ur cock outta wizoz's ass [20:00] <@truth> But it's so warm and tight [20:00] <+]km[xiszzz> challenge us again, get raped again, dispute again, rinse , repeate)
[19:57:37] <krenZ> sorry R1CH
[19:57:54] <krenZ> >.<
[19:59:23] <UUD-40> =]
[19:59:54] *** quadz sets mode: +b *!*@d14-69-92-134.try.wideopenwest.com
...
[20:09:49] *** hehaw (~hehaw@c-71-58-223-176.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #tastyspleen
...
[20:27:13] *** hehaw is now known as RICK
...
[20:59:41] *** fulgore (~fulgore@65-36-9-85.dyn.grandenetworks.net) has joined #tastyspleen
[20:59:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v fulgore
[20:59:47] <fulgore> k
[20:59:48] <fulgore> niggas
[20:59:49] <fulgore> so
[20:59:59] <fulgore> how do i get on station
[21:00:46] *** ChanServ sets mode: +l 59
[21:01:12] <[BTF]Gator> first, refrain from using that term in here.  its not a request
...
[21:02:35] <fulgore> when i see someone get owned
[21:02:40] <fulgore> i'm gonna say "wow that stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual just got owned"
...
[21:16:32] <fulgore> the word i choose to use
[21:16:33] <fulgore> is stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual
[21:16:35] <fulgore> therefore
[21:16:36] <fulgore> stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual

[21:21:13] <fulgore> 10-4 my stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual

[21:48:33] <notkami> he is a bit rude
[21:48:44] <notkami> im not defending his right to be rude
[21:48:56] <notkami> he does it for entertainment and accepts his punishments

Right... As though by dropping one letter he can be a dick and squeak by on a technicality.

Basically I see scant difference between RICK's use of the word and fulgore's use of the word.  RICK's usage isn't accepted, and by the transitive property, neither is fullgore's.  Dropping one letter isn't going to magically skirt the issue.


Regards,

[Kami]

but he originally wasn't using it to be an asshole.  he just talks like that.

rick however was obviously intending to be offensive.

i mean do i have special glasses on or is it really the same situation?

changing a couple letters means a HUGE difference quadz, and im surprised that you would even suggest that it doesn't.

ni**er - a very racist term given to black slaves by white masters, generally referring to someone of poor intelligence
stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual - a slang word that means 'buddy', 'friend', 'peer'.

the words mean two different things.  dropping one letter makes a world of difference.

my big question is how do you use the word stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual offensively.  i remain strong on my stance that the answer is that you cannot.

[[BTF]Gator]

Perhaps it is just Generation Gap.  But there is no way i can give you my life experience, or others give you theirs that could help you understand.  It has been stated that it can be taken offensively, or is considered offensive by some.  The why is a personal issue that if you cannot grasp, consider yourself blessed.  But the reasons for holding such feelings are strong enough, that its not likely you will be able to debate someone into thinking differently.

[Kami]

Perhaps it is just Generation Gap.  But there is no way i can give you my life experience, or others give you theirs that could help you understand.  It has been stated that it can be taken offensively, or is considered offensive by some.  The why is a personal issue that if you cannot grasp, consider yourself blessed.  But the reasons for holding such feelings are strong enough, that its not likely you will be able to debate someone into thinking differently.

well im not asking anything complicated.  how would you use the word to be offensive is what im saying?

i mean calling somone a stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual is the same as saying dude, buddy, or whatever.

[console]

changing a couple letters means a HUGE difference quadz, and im surprised that you would even suggest that it doesn't.

Depends on the intent.

We've had plenty of occasions like this:

some_player: stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual!
some_player: stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual!
some_player: stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual!
console: Don't use racist language here please.
some_player: fuck you nig!!
some_player: fuck you nig!!
some_player: fuck you nig!!
some_player: fuck you nig!!
some_player: fuck you nig!!

Hey - wow! They changed three whole letters!

Obviously their intent is the same, and they're dropping letters to try to get by on a technicality.

my big question is how do you use the word stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual offensively.  i remain strong on my stance that the answer is that you cannot.

Really?  I have no doubt at all I could get my ass kicked, or worse, in certain neighborhoods, by walking up to people and using the word "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" in anything but the most carefully nuanced ha-ha-i'm-totally-joking-please-don't-break-my-face tone of voice.

The fact that tone of voice is more difficult to read through text, does not change the fact that whoever typed the word did so with a certain intent.  That intent may be playful, or it may be cynical and mean spirited, etc.

[Kami]

changing a couple letters means a HUGE difference quadz, and im surprised that you would even suggest that it doesn't.

Depends on the intent.

We've had plenty of occasions like this:

some_player: stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual!
some_player: stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual!
some_player: stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual!
console: Don't use racist language here please.
some_player: fuck you nig!!
some_player: fuck you nig!!
some_player: fuck you nig!!
some_player: fuck you nig!!
some_player: fuck you nig!!

Hey - wow! They changed three whole letters!

Obviously their intent is the same, and they're dropping letters to try to get by on a technicality.

my big question is how do you use the word stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual offensively.  i remain strong on my stance that the answer is that you cannot.

Really?  I have no doubt at all I could get my ass kicked, or worse, in certain neighborhoods, by walking up to people and using the word "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" in anything but the most carefully nuanced ha-ha-i'm-totally-joking-please-don't-break-my-face tone of voice.

The fact that tone of voice is more difficult to read through text, does not change the fact that whoever typed the word did so with a certain intent.  That intent may be playful, or it may be cynical and mean spirited, etc.

well for your first situation, nig is just shorthand nig-er.  but yeah that's fine.  im more talking about the casual "sup my niggas".  as for second, while thats nice for real life (and honestly i doubt that happens anymore), this is the internet.

[console]

im more talking about the casual "sup my niggas".

And I'm saying it matters who's doing the talking.

If Chris Rock wants to get on here, he can damn well use "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" or "niggazzzzz!" or "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" etc...  It's Chris Rock, ffs!

As for your friend who "is a bit rude", and who "does it for entertainment and accepts his punishments", I see no reason why I should trust his motives.

as for second, while thats nice for real life (and honestly i doubt that happens anymore), this is the internet.

What does that really mean?  Over time, the ways people connect over the internet are only going to become more sophisticated.  Either way there's still a person on the other end of the connection.  I don't aspire to treat people differently over the internet than I would in person.


Regards,

[[BTF]Gator]

If Chris Rock comes on #ts and talks that way, well, with deep lament of how it could harm his career, i would still object to him speaking that way in the channel.  If he were continue to use such language after requests to stop, even Chris Rock would find himself devoiced in #ts.

notkami, i comprehend and understand your desired use for the word, but it still comes down to this fact.  It may be ok for you to say that with your friends, no harm done, no ill intent, nobody offended.  However #ts is an irc channel for the servers and it would be equivalent to standing in a large crowded public place with lots of people around you who dont know you, dont understand your intent, and arent even interested in your intent.  The word and even its modifications of it carry too strong emotional responses to it.  You don't know everyone in #ts as closely and intimately as you do your close friends that stated behavior is deemed acceptable with.  There is different ettiquette for public and private spaces.

Your ability to express yourself is not being limited here.  There are many, many other words you could use instead to express your thoughts.

[console]

If Chris Rock comes on #ts and talks that way, well, with deep lament of how it could harm his career, i would still object to him speaking that way in the channel.  If he were continue to use such language after requests to stop, even Chris Rock would find himself devoiced in #ts.

Haha, what!!      Well my assumption--poorly explained and just a tad unlikely--was that he had come to the channel to do his comedy routines for us.

In such a scenario it's almost certain he'd be the only +v in the channel.

Oh well.  Maybe my hypothetical example is causing more confusion than illumination at this point.


In any case... I agree with the remainder of your post.


Regards,

[jägermonsta]

I dislike the word "stereotypical ethnic ghetto-style individual" not because of the potential racial vulgarity of it, but because it's just plain annoying to hear over and over. If you feel you need to act 'urban' then call em' your "brotha". It's annoying still, but not so much.