Developing Mutant

[the Crazed]

Hello there... thought I would make some comments on what I'd like to see done with the custom map server (with full emphasis on I, this is very subjective).

I think we should evaluate maps based on connectivity, flow, item placement, playability, etc. and create a map list of of decent multiplayer custom maps.  To do this we could just examine the maps that are currently being played (and have for a while now) and record the names of the best maps using these criteria.  Then we totally change the current maplist (perhaps keeping the good ones we've written down and adding new ones, perhaps not) and play another month with new maps and at the end add a fraction of the new ones to our record of good maps and repeat the process.  After we go through all the maps we could create several maplists to rotate in and out of the server (or one giant one).

I think the real purpose of Mutant is not really just to play custom maps.  It's to play a variety of GOOD multiplayer maps.  I moved from Vanilla to Mutant mainly because the maps were better.  At Mutant's birth there were very few custom maps on it and after playing for hours and days (and months!) it offered me about the same variety as Vanilla, but it was still the better server for the map value. 

"Custom" should be de-emphasized.  It would be nice to have the standard DM maps mixed in because they play so well and offer familiarity in the middle of a sea of nameless maps.  Maybe even add balanced SP maps. 

If the idea is to get a LOT of custom maps played then a certain amount of random maps (from our reject list) could be mixed in (please, please mix) each month or whenever the maplist is changed.  Or if new customs are found, add those.  And of course, the mymap command would still be able to access them all.

Anyways, it would be so nice to get an FFA server going that plays maps based on their quality (no dm7!! only the mod!!) and doesn't limit itself to a single map or a small group of maps or a category of maps (custom, DM, SP, etc.).  I know it would take a variety of inputs from "respected" players (players that don't just play well, but understand the game and all the criteria I listed above ) to do a good job, but it could work out so well!  I hope it wouldn't be seen as just narrowing the maps down to the type I prefer to play, but actually working out quality maps the majority of players would enjoy.  I think it would be good not only for Mutant, but also the tourney servers because new maps would be found that are suitable for matches. 

Ummm, what does anyone think?  Does it sound like a good idea or just too much work (which would ultimately fall on those evaluating the maps and the console)?

[console]

It's cool w/ me mang.

The current mutant rotation was never meant to be static.

The current rotation is (in alphabetical order, not rotation order):

4u2map12a aerowalk alkdm15 amtal auh2dm3 bath bldstorm broken3 bsol dacube dakyneq2 dalek10q2 dm7q2 dreams eagle el2dm6 endgame epitaph fixed1 fury grdm1 grom_dm3 grunt ikdm4 kamq2dm3 kndybas2 kta m48a marics25 marics27 marics28 marics29a marics32 marics35 marics36 marics37 marics39 marics56 marics58 marics59 marics_con1 marics_ra2 mas2ft1 paradm4 poodm10 q2campgrnds q2pduel4 rvndm1 sandcastle semper06 shadows tltf trdm04a uultrav verm06 ztn2dm5


Feel free to recommend alternatives/additions/subtractions... The full list of votable 'mymap' maps on mutant is:

007_facility 0kelvin 1on1 2am 2box4 2dlady 4box6 4u2map12a 4u2map13 4u2map3 4u2map4b 4u2map7b 4u2map8a ad_mortem aerowalk alexis alkdm15 amtal an2_3 an2_3 ancient aodm1 apq2dm1 areaf arena arma5 as2m7 asylum auh2dm2 auh2dm3 backup baddm2 base1 base2 base3 base64 bath battle battleblocks beethoviana bell beta2dm bfgarena2 biggun bigspacegunup bio4 bldstorm blevel blood1 boss1 boss2 bound_ni1 broken1 broken2 broken3 brokenedge bsol bugdm5 bugdm9 bunk1 burger burn bw cardus castle cats06 caverns caves chapter4 chattanooisland chop cinema cir city1 city2 city3 city64 ckadm1 cldm16 cliff cliff2 clownfish clrail1 cmdm3 cold colour columnwars command conduit confess conster cool1 corsai cqoi craybox cremorse crisis cross crowesedge crush ctr_lot cxdm2 cxdm4 cxdm5 d2m1 d2m7 d2map1 dacube daf2dm1 dakyneq2 dalek10q2 darksbox datower dbdm1 dckdm2 dead dedalo deldm1 demise derelict deus disposal dkq2dm8 dlite dm1 dm1sol dm3 dm3_q2 dm4ishq2 dm4q23 dm5q1 dm7mod dm7q2 dmf dreams dspace e1m7ish eagle el2dm6 endgame epitaph evil1 evil2 evilq2dm evolution fact0 fact1 fact2 fact3 fatal2 fatal3 fatald fbdm1 fbdm3 fbdm5 fgdm1 figure8 fink0dm2 fishrail fixed1 fleshref flower3 flypaper fortlag fortnite fph fraghack fragtw10 fragtwn1 fragtwn2 fragtwn3 fragtwn4 fragtwn5 fragtwn6 fragtwn7 fragtwn8 fragtwn9 fragzone frdm2 frdm3 fubar funhouse funksky furiosity fury fusion fwq2dm4 fy01 fy02 gdm8_q2 gladdm1 gladdm2 gladdm5 glug! gmap1dm2 gomdm1 gooddm gotcha gr_dm1 gr_dm2_1 gr_dm3_1 gr_dm4_1 gr_fire graffiti grandm4 graveyard grdm1 grdm3 greenday grenfort grind grngaunt grom_dm1 grom_dm3 grunt gun_q2 hammer hangar1 hangar2 hardange headbutt heat heck hehe hipdm1 hm2dm1 hockey hode homers10 homers11 homers12 homers14 homers15 homers16 homers17 homers9 homicide hotseat hub hvnnhell hyperdm8 iceland icepick icepick1 idcbase3 ikdm1 ikdm2 ikdm3 ikdm4 ikdm5 ikdm6 ikdm7 ikdm8 ikdm9 in2obl inqdm2 intimon iodine1 iraq iroq1 jabbar jackboot jail1 jail2 jail3 jail4 jail5 japang jdm3 jef2dm6 johnnydm4 jones jonpowdm1 joyride jumpdm1 kamq2dm3 kamq2dm4 kick killingbox2 kmachine kndybas2 knuckledm1 kod6 komit koth1 koth10 koth11 koth2 koth3 koth4 koth5 koth6 koth8 koth9 kothking kr02 kr07 krustydm krypton kta ktdm8 kzdm2 kzydm1 kzydm2 kzydm3 kzydm5 kzydm6 kzydm8 kzydm9 lab lag laurail1 laurail2 lawm6 levels lock01 lt_dm1 lush m1_lava1a m48a m50a m54a m63a majmdm1 manhunt marics1 marics12 marics16 marics17 marics18 marics19 marics20 marics21 marics22 marics23 marics24 marics25 marics27 marics28 marics29a marics30 marics31 marics32 marics33 marics34 marics35 marics36 marics37 marics38 marics39 marics40 marics42 marics43 marics44 marics45 marics46 marics48 marics54 marics55 marics56 marics57 marics58 marics59 marics5_bounce marics62 marics64 marics66 marics67 marics74 marics_con1 marics_con2 marics_con3 marics_d1 marics_d2 marics_d4 marics_ds marics_ra1 marics_ra2 marics_ra3 marics_ra5 marics_ra6 marics_ra7 marics_space mas2ft1 match1 mdm2 mdm4 meadow3 millennium mine1 mine2 mine3 mine4 mintro mkfutile mkmetal monastery mortis nastybox nedchasten nedcore nedgluon nedhyst nexus2 nexus4 octagon ohmdm3 ohmdm4 onerib ospdm1 otherware outpost pain_e painklr2 pandm2 pandm8 paradm1 paradm2 paradm3 paradm4 parkgarage perspex pigs pinhole poodm1 poodm10 poodm3 power1 power2 predm1 prelude ptrip pynapple q2a52 q2campgrnds q2dm1 q2dm18 q2dm1inv q2dm2 q2dm2c q2dm2rs q2dm3 q2dm4 q2dm5 q2dm6 q2dm7 q2dm8 q2dmd q2dmpirate q2dmstrk q2e1m1 q2e1m2 q2e1m4 q2e1m5 q2e1m6 q2e2m2 q2e2m3 q2e2m4 q2e2m5 q2e3m1 q2e3m3 q2pduel4 q2pitnew q2rdm2 q2rdm7 q2sdm1 q2wwdm1 q3a quadw r41l12 r41l6 rail1 rail101md railbox raildm railmap railomatic raydm2 rcdm11 rec redarena2 remember rene16 rene24 rene27 rene28 rene30 rene34 rene35 rene38 rene40 rene45 rene46 rene47 rene48 rene50 rene51 rene53 rings3 rk104a rockit2u rockrail rof room1a rqmarena1 rqmarena2 rqmarena3 rqmarena4 rqmarena5 rqmdm1 rqmdm2 rqmdm3 rqmdm4 ruiner ruins rvndm1 s8n1 s8n2 sandcastle security sedm3 semper06 semper07 sewer64 shadows shiro2 simple slug smell smo7v3 smutdm1 sniper9 soahc7 solid space spacerat spasmo3 spasmo5 spasmo6 spasmo8 spasmo9 spec8dm spogdm2 spogdm3 spogsp1 spoon srq53 sstation stadium stellar stone stonemn2 strike strongdm sventourney1a sventourney2 sventourney3 tastydm1 tbdm4 techcity temple temple007 temple33 thegoth thegym therails tig_pit tltf towers2 town tqadm1 tqm tragic1 train trdm01 trdm02a trdm03a trdm04a trdm05a trdm06 triopa tsm_dest tuckersluck tvbp twofold tww2dm u2 umbriel unrdm1 uultrav valley vd6dm1 ven_dm2 ven_dm4 verm06 vertigo ware1 ware2 waste1 waste2 waste3 wasted well widow wild1 worn wtf! wtf!2 wtf!3 wulfhere ww_3 xldm5 xldm6 yog2dm3b yog2dm4 ztn2dm1 ztn2dm1_c ztn2dm2 ztn2dm3 ztn2dm4 ztn2dm5

Enjoy!



Regards,

[Punk_FAS]

My 2 cents.  I never did understand how the Mutant server's map choices came about.  It doesn't seem that the maps were chosen based on their playability, they were only chosen because they had the "custom" flag to them.  Problem is, there are LOTS of sucky custom maps, and quite a few I'm sure on Mutant that are in the rotation.

My pet peeves with maps, custom or otherwise.  Abundance of pitfalls you can't recover from, "so and so was in the wrong place".  I guess I prefer fast action, and with maps that have too many places where you fall and die, you have to be too focused on simple movements than shooting at people, or you keep killing yourself.  The Longest Three Feet (TLTF) would be an exception to this though, as that one is just plain fun for some reason =)  Probably because of the long distance railing, and the numerous chances of railing someone off the edge, heh =)  The jump pads help a lot too.  IMO too many maps on Mutant now are built around pitfalls though, and I just find that a tad annoying.  A few here and there is ok, but there's definitely a limit IMO.

Also, maps that have a bazillion teleports I don't find too much fun either.  Makes it too easy to escape your enemy, etc.  I always seem to be the aggressive one, chasing after someone, and I don't flee, I just die heh =)  I like getting into firefights, etc.  And I just get annoyed when people use the same dumb strategy over and over..... "Ok, he's chasing me, all I need to do, is go through that TP, and spam the portal area with nades or rockets, and I get the kill! yeah!"  Bah! I hate it =P

Anyway, I belive the mutant server has a lot of potential too, and there are a LOT of fun custom maps, or ones that I enjoy quite a bit.  I'll try to chime in if you want with my opinions on specific maps.

[the Crazed]

Cool!  Wasn't sure if people wanted to mess with it or not... I guess we don't have to be too discerning really... just maps that feel like they have good flow and playability.  I'm getting sick of the huge railing maps by marics.  He has some great maps (i think...) and some DUDS.  But... thanks for the maplist console... i'm gonna revise the current map list to how i think it should read and post it... and Punk, you should do the same    I have to forewarn that I'm going to be pretty lazy about it, but since I've played all these maps over and over all I need to do is start it up and see if it's a good one or not.  Once we actually go through them I was hoping we could have an entirely new maplist to play for a month and get used to... and then do the same. 

Ummm, it's important obviously to keep some variety here, so I'll include maps I don't necessarily like to play, but seem to have a good set up for multiplayer.  Just wanna get a big list of some good maps!

Thanks guys! 
 
-the Crazed

[Laurelin]

I will sure help to find suitable custom maps which have the qualities to deliver great games.

First one, DREAMS!

---

I agree about marics 90% of his maps are 'open areas' - rail dominated maps. Also I noticed that the server only has the 'first' maric maps. Marics has made 100 maps, and the tools he used in the end were really paying off. I recommend checking out marics from 80 to 100 (except the silly LegoLand maps). There are some suitables. Ill list them later on.

But maps like 'Out where the thunder Roars' are totally 'rail' maps which should be played on the railz server. wrong server.

---

Well crazed, while you were trying to find points to bring against 'dreams' as a crappy map - I did a review of the maps currently on rotation, which I have. I noted them with a (minus) or a (plus) sign.

Review of Maps:
+4u2map12a: A bit open map, but very good for multiple gun fights. Nice item placement.
+aerowalk: Nuff' said
+alkdm15: Nice looking map, played it a few times, very good flow. A few teleporters, but no campy.
amtal:
+auh2dm3: Alright map, people seem to like it though, always get good games there even though I dont really find it networked.
-bath: Bloodbath. People normally stay by rail & Rocket. Water basins & tunnels are not much used. Not much flow in that map.
bldstorm:
+broken3: this is a classic - good gaming.
-bsol: This is a Rail map. Open spaces which leave no option but to rail.
-dacube: stupid map, worse than SP maps.
-dakyneq2: two many powerups, ordinary flow. This map always gives good games but I wouldn't seeing it off the list as I don't consider it a quality map.
-dalek10q2: very small map, not really recommended.
-dm7q2: Campy map imo, not really connective.
+dreams: Small map, incredibly nice looking. Practically no rail - give SSG, Rocket, Chain wars. Might be a little spammy near water-tunnel, but imo a great Map.
-eagle: Rail map. Games I played, everyone was running for rail. There are too many dead-ends (rocket) and dead zones. Definitly no flow in this map.
-el2dm6: poor map, basically its 4 dead-end with spammy fights.
-endgame: Prolly the map which gives the most 'wrong place' death. I personnally am not too keen of space maps. I could link many other superior space maps.
epitaph:
+fixed1: Another classic, enough said.
+fury: a bit open, but in FFA you can't control rail. Good map.
+grdm1: nice map, fights are usually happening at SSG-Teleporter. But it is definitly a quality product.
+grom_dm3: Grom owns.
+grunt: Large map, might not be interesting when few players. Otherwise its definitly a quality map, good item placement, good connectivity.
+ikdm4: Like grunt, Large map, great when has some people. Good flow, good item placement.
-kamq2dm3: Small map, gets very very spammy at Rocket Launcher. Not really my favorite.
-kndybas2: poor looking map, weird lay-out (chaotic). Definitly not part of the top-notch maps.
-kta: SPAM map, crappy.
-m48a: very open map, Rail map.
-marics25: Small map, a bit spammy on the rail dead-end.
marics27
+marics28: a bit raily, but alright - played a few times and beheld some nice hyperblaster fights.
-marics29a: poor map imo, can be easily rail-dominated. People don't seem to enjoy it anyway.
-marics32: Rail map, plenty teleporters - bad really.
+marics35: A bit open, however many easy exits from large area. I really enjoyed playing that map. I think it could be part of the selected maps.
+marics36: Nice one, many type of fights, rail well placed to prevent rail-domination.
marics37
-marics39: Rail map, totally open, send to Railz Server.
+marics56: open map - however gives good multi-weapon fights as I experienced.
marics58
-marics59: Rail map, space located. not really a suitable map.
marics_con1
marics_ra2
+mas2ft1: nice map, excellent lay-out and item placement.
+paradm4: nice compact map 'ala' ztn.
+poodm10: Excellent map - one of the most beautifully textured map. Item placement is also great.
+q2campgrnds: q3 conversion, open areas but great fights.
+q2pduel4: Kryptonite, great map, great lay-out, good item placement.
-rvndm1: Many dead-zones, item placement lacks. Normally running for Rail, open areas.
sandcastle
+semper06: Never played it in FFA, large areas, might be interesting.
+shadows: awesome map, good item placement, perfect candidate.
-tltf: Rail map, there are some chain+rocket fights, but that's before you get railed. People seem to love it so I dont really mind, I just play around.
+trdm04a: Great lay-out, good item placement, good flow, great map.
-uultrav: SPAM map, pick rocket and launch some down in the main room.
-verm06: poor mapping, SSG spam mostly. no fluidity.
+ztn2dm5: Large but great map. ztn.

--Add--

marics83: Pile'O rocks is a map made for q2 mapping contest at Planetquake. Its a great map with some open areas, but with quite a few inside halls. Definitly looks like a killer map for FFA competition!


Regards,
Laurelin

[the Crazed]

I will sure help to find suitable custom maps which have the qualities to deliver great games.

First one, DREAMS!

you are hereby CUT from the committee!

[console]

My 2 cents.  I never did understand how the Mutant server's map choices came about.  It doesn't seem that the maps were chosen based on their playability, they were only chosen because they had the "custom" flag to them.

Well the latest rotation came about a couple months back when somebody on the forums suggested mutant needed more maps, more maps, more maps!

So I asked for suggestions, and got:

optical: mas2ft1, hammer, fury, q2campgrnds, ecdm1, ikdm4, q2frag1, 4u2map12a

crazed: auh2dm3, joyride, semper06, broken3, crowesedge, dlite, eagle, el2dm6, endgame

mat: cliff, crowesedge, funhouse, gooddm, japang, marics25, marics35

Then I loaded up all 580-odd non-builtin maps on the server and segregated them into a few categories.  I took just about everything I thought might work for mutant and added them, in addition to most of the suggestions above.

In the following weeks I'd done a little tweaking, based on finally being able to play some of these live on a reasonably full server.  Removing some that didn't work [or ones that i was seeing complaints people were tired of!], adding other candidates...

removed: m54a dlite marics62 gr_dm3_1 joyride hammer ztn2dm3 unrdm1 fragtwn9 rene51
added: bldstorm dacube bell marics27 marics28 marics29a marics32 marics33 marics36 marics37 marics39 marics56 marics58 marics_ra2

removed: backup
added: ztn2dm5

removed: marics33
added: bsol

removed: meadow3 mdm4

removed: stone

added: sandcastle dalek10q2 epitaph

removed: bell
added: amtal q2pduel4 grunt

..and my pending to-add and to-remove list that i hadn't gotten to yet is currently:

to add: tastydm1
to remove: dm7q2 kndybas2

Thus bringing us up to >now<. 


P.S. Also, as we know, not everybody likes the same kinds of q2 maps for the same reasons.  For instance, one of my favorite SP maps is hangar2.  If you don't know it by name, load it up sometime.  I anticipate an, "oh my god i hate that map!!" reaction. 

Regards,

[console]

I did a review of the maps currently on rotation, which I have. I noted them with a (minus) or a (plus) sign.

Thanks Laurelin, much appreciated.

Personally I'd go the same way with most of those, except I happen to like:
dakyneq2, kta, marics29a, marics32, marics59, rvndm1

Oh yeah, and hangar2.  <grin>


Regards,

[themuffinman]

base64 is da shyt!!!! I hope we can mymap it! Had loads of fun on that map in da past 

[the Crazed]

hmmm..... i used to request dreams back on vanilla, so i feel partially responsible for having it on mutant now... damn, laur you got on that fast.  There's a few i disagree with... dreams being one.  I dunno... i don't have much fun there.  Too cramped (narrow-ass halls) and linear.  Rocket rules even the biggest area there really.

anyways, i better get reviewing!!

[Bleach]

Why did bell get taken off? thats a really fun map IMO.. I used to join anytime i saw it on. That crazy metal one after it (dont remember name) had a cool layout.. but it hurt my eyes it was hard to look at.

[Punk_FAS]

Just about to head to work so won't be home till about 12AM EST, but I'll check out some of those maps later.

[console]

Why did bell get taken off? thats a really fun map IMO.. I used to join anytime i saw it on.

Hmm.!!  Well I kept seeing comments from players on bell like "hmm this map really isn't very good", and the like.  I had gotten the impression it was generally disliked... But I wasn't very scientific about it. 

That crazy metal one after it (dont remember name) had a cool layout.. but it hurt my eyes it was hard to look at.

alkdm15

Yeah it's funny, one time I saw people complaining about bell, but they still played bell all the way through - then when alkdm15 came on there were no complaints--but, everybody left the server.  lol...

Regards,

[Laurelin]

Hehe.

Maybe there could be server stat logging, computing the most played maps on Mutant (regardless of the night/day, workhours factors). So we could have a 'faint' idea of which maps are prefered by the Mass. Thus sharpening the list.

Regards,
Laurelin

[the Crazed]

you mean... the most mymapped maps?