Author Topic: The great timer debate (Read 16419 times)

[BTF]EyEsTrAiN · « **Reply #30 on:** July 06, 2005, 12:08:27 PM »

Quote from: the Crazed on July 06, 2005, 07:33:39 AM

Maybe we could have a rule that timers are not to be used in our 1on1 tourneys? It couldn't be enforced, but I think most people here don't have them anyway, and of those that do at least a few wouldn't use them out of respect. Or maybe just agree before a match whether or not you *should* use them with your coming opponent, and if the person refuses NOT to you just have to deal with it and get your own. At least that way you know they even have them and can adjust.

I dunno... just a thought...

Kind of hard when a client has the timer built in. Would be nice if there was a disable feature for the timers in q2advance....

evilpope · « **Reply #31 on:** July 06, 2005, 01:42:43 PM »

Here's the problems with timers:

1. There are multiple methods of implementation. Timers can be used via the cd player controls ("play" console command), through 3rd party programs such as winamp that use global hotkeys, through modification of the sounds, or be turned on in the game(q2a does have cl_timers 0 which turns off the timer display).

2. Some methods can be stopped but others can not. The play command could be removed, and the onscreen timers in q2a could be removed. This isnt bad, but what about winamp and other programs? These programs use a windows api to access the keyboard, and there is no way to stop it. Infact being able to stop it would be a very bad thing, if a program could take complete control over the keyboard, when it crashed you would likely have to reboot the entire computer with the power button.

3. If timers can't be stoped, all you can rely on is somebody's word. Sorry, but perhaps I dont trust people as much as you, but from what I see anyone who can gain an advantage will take it. Some may not wallhack or bot, but timers are neither wallhacking nor botting, and can be done completely undetected on a non-lan setting. Hell, someone could probably get away with using timers on a lan setting provided no one was tapped into his headphones to know. So I figured, if a large percentage of people are going to use them no matter what, and some people (like me) think that timing is a skill to be done in one's head; there is only one solution: take them out of the game completely. People will tell you that they dont use timers, but when i see them playing i find it impossible that they don't, because they are hitting 5 and 6 timer binds at a time, and that becomes ingrained into ur playing after a while.

I think just putting them out there so everyone has the same shit is the best method. I'm open to suggestions as I hate timers myself, but i see no real solution to the problem.

And winamp controls are nice to have in my quake client sometimes too, would suck to ruin that cause people want to win that badly

the Crazed · « **Reply #32 on:** July 06, 2005, 03:14:53 PM »

EP.... sounds like you're trying to do what you think is right. Certainly most people playing at a certain level use timers or could use them, and if nothing can be done then nothing can be done. I don't currently use q2a and didn't realize you couldn't disable them, which could be a nice feature for those of us who don't like timers or prefer to use them manually. I'm just speculating that MOST people on tastyspleen would probably honor a no timer request (and if you didn't trust your opponent's word you could say you WANT timers in use to level the playing field), but like you said you just can't know.

I dunno, doesn't really sound like there's much of a solution aside from everyone adopting timers as you've done. I would still prefer that people use them manually but I understand your arguments and doubt automatic timers would make a big difference to skilled players accustomed to using timers, and on maps with a lot of armor it might even be advantageous to use manual timers so you can track specific armors. Anyways, I'm pretty sure that the people I play in these tournaments who can beat me, could beat me regardless of cheating, and those who couldn't would have to be pretty obvious. Either way I'll just try my hardest.

Quest · « **Reply #33 on:** August 30, 2005, 04:13:39 PM »

I know some people hate timers, others like em ... but i got home from wrk today and was a lil bored. Eventhough I dont usually use timers, I have noticed that 90% of all the wav timers out there are kinda poor (in quality). So i decided to make up some custom timers for people to use if they wish to. If you want any others, i could do those up too. Lemme know what you think.

Quest

Laurelin · « **Reply #34 on:** August 30, 2005, 04:56:56 PM »

Good.

But just some preferences on the timers as I experienced in teams.

A countdown from 10s is a bit too long and annoying. especially for armors which spawn every 20 sec. which means that if u controlled armor the whole game, u would listen to that countdown half the game. It'd get on everyone's nerves.

The ones I have call the 10s mark, but start the countdown at 5sec. Which is perfect imo.

Second, another thing I *think* was done on purpose with the timers I had. Is that they are all different in voice or sound (not all the same girl or voice). This makes it easier to remember (if u ever time a couple things at simultaneously) which item is being countdowned/timed...

So each sound having a unique particularity, and a smaller countdown.

Also for Quad - you definitly need the +60s timer, which is when the quad is picked. And you could also add the Weapon +30!

That being said: GJ!

Regards,
Laurelin

M^tster · « **Reply #35 on:** August 30, 2005, 05:16:12 PM »

I dont think that timers are cheats.I just think as someone told me earlier, they have a high cheeze factor.I wont use them. I also have a feel for when stuff will respwan.

BigwigKEA · « **Reply #36 on:** August 30, 2005, 06:00:37 PM »

I have no time to read all of this especially Dealmun..god that guy would post at least 10 paragrah if you just asked him how old he is. A cheat to me is something that gives you an advantage over the other. If timing an item gives you an advantage that you wouldn't have usually (by not having the ability to time the item properly) well to me it's cheating. It's not as bad as many other cheats but still I wouldn't use that.

Quest · « **Reply #37 on:** August 30, 2005, 06:20:24 PM »

damn laurl ... yer right ... i dunno why i did the quad for 30sec ..... oops

ill get that fixed up and put some new ones up

Quest · « **Reply #38 on:** August 30, 2005, 07:01:53 PM »

ok, these timers should be correct

quest

Laurelin · « **Reply #39 on:** August 30, 2005, 08:25:58 PM »

Quad 30s isn't wrong. Cause that's also when the quad deadzone begins, so if you are the Quad-bearer, you can forget the +60 mark but still make it for the 30s.

I have four timers.
Armor +20
Weapon +30
Quad +30
Quad +60

Regards,
Laurelin

X'tyfe · « **Reply #40 on:** August 31, 2005, 06:16:57 AM »

TIMERS ARE THE WORK OF THE DEVIL!!

Quest · « **Reply #41 on:** August 31, 2005, 01:15:03 PM »

perhaps ... but it gave me the opportunity to play w/ and cut apart some audio in premiere

Its been awhile since ive done that, so it was kinda fun

quest

Slikkster · « **Reply #42 on:** August 31, 2005, 01:31:48 PM »

We better not get too carried away with this whole timer thing, lest QuakeDuke think that you're questioning the legitimacy of "old" timers.

{TNP}Dukie · « **Reply #43 on:** August 31, 2005, 06:12:49 PM »

Quote from: Slikkster on August 31, 2005, 01:31:48 PM

We better not get too carried away with this whole timer thing, lest QuakeDuke think that you're questioning the legitimacy of "old" timers.

Laurelin · « **Reply #44 on:** September 02, 2005, 12:18:29 AM »

Well - Jquest gave me the motivation to do my own timers.

Theres not quad & armor since I have pretty good ones already.
I made specific-weapon timers, invul timer & ps timer.

Get them here: tastytimers.zip
http://tourney.tastyspleen.net/tdm/timers

Poll

Are use of timers in Q2 a cheat?

Author Topic: The great timer debate (Read 16419 times)

BigwigKEA

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