ffa vs 1v1 or teamplay

[banes]

well hello again people, maybe im just asking to be flamed by making this thread, but id like to have an intelligent conversation about the differences between ffa and 1v1 and the value of each, id like to just have some intelligent discussion about it, but i wouldnt be surprised if the newbs that are filling my other thread with garbage dont come here and try to flame me

i was playing in the vanilla server today, and i was thinking to myself, why do i like this, obviously i come to the vanilla server more than occasionally,  as im jumping through the mass of grenades littered on the floor, blasting the newbs who stand in place and slowly rotate like a bad turret, and im heading towards the rail/ssg/rl/powerweapon on the map, im thinking, damn this is easy, is this why people like it?

lets outline some points that become the basis for doing well in ffa
1.always head straight for the power weapons, this is where people clump the most as everyone trys to grab this gun in order to hit the frag the fastest while at the same time feeding the competition
2.always pick up armor(when its on the way), or additional defense items that will aid you in surviving, this is a little known fact to many newbs, but armor helps you out greatly, but dont go out of your way to get it, this wastes precious time when you could be fragging
3.memorize the skin of the crappiest players, then always make them a priority, other people may want to frag this easy target, do it to keep their score down and yours up, then because your aim is superior you will be able to kill the harder moving targets while your enemies falter
4.use every weapon possible to kill, ammo is scarce, while running to that power weapon of your choice, always grab weaker guns and kill anything on the way there
5.spam the grenade launcher, as sad a fact it is, if you ever grab the grenade launcher and see a huge crowd, easy frags, its a really cheap and easy gun to use so it becomes the newbies gun of choice, its not uncommon to see three newbs in a similar area all spamming grenades towards the center or a lower platform trying to get the easiest kills possible cause they got no skillz
6.shoot into crowds, you dont neccessarily have to have good aim in these particular instances, you can generally get a kill or two with a good gun if you just shoot towards large clumps, something known as the storm trooper effect
7.dont doddle, typing, alt tabbing, running around to obscure areas fetching the bfg, this is wasteful, in dm it can come down to the wire, alot of times when i dont hit the frag limit, i am one frag away from hitting the frag limit with a good weapon locked in a dance with an opponent, had the person who hit the frag limit taken any time off to do any of the above listed or other, i would have taken the victory from him, hence even seconds matter in dm
8.memorize the skins of the best player, and keep him down, remember killing the person who you are competing with to hit the frag limit forces him to lose seconds respawning and finding a new gun, dont feed his score, make him feed yours! these guys are your priority as well
9. dont get hit/die, DUR this is an obvious point, however some people feel its not a big deal to eat a rocket sometimes because they'll just respawn right away, the longer you stay alive the better, i know because of ammo constraints this can be difficult, and every situation is different, but ive noticed theres a significant ratio of how many deaths one has, to how good their score is

i can go on but these are the basic ideas

id like to go into some detail on point 3 5 and 6 because these are the reasons i dislike dm

3 becomes an important rule, even if youre not memorizing their skin, generally you can tell when a player is poor, stands still and turns slowly, these are easy kills and we waste no time taking their heads before someone else does, it becomes a race to kill all the newblets in these servers, thats what i dislike the most, where is the skill in killing someone who has no concept of moving+shooting, none, and it becomes luck to find these newbs scattered among the map, so if you happen to find them quite often, it'll give your score a significant kick, i should make a note however that tasty spleen has a real infestation problem when it comes to newbs, but i know that not all servers have to be this way, i recall mages server being an excellent dm server with high quality players on it all the time, and trip has informed me about a redmond server, but the following points are still valid

5 i hate some maps because the grenade launcher is easy access and there are multiple places to get it from, so everybody and their momma ends up with a grenade launcher, and you see a minefield of grenades scattered about, and its not unlikely to die a few times before even reaching a decent gun, or getting any frags, these kills really take no skill, i mean there are gl kills that require skill, bouncing them off the walls, shooting them high up and reaching someone, if you aim correctly and make them catch your grenade thats skill, if youre just shooting into a generally crowded area merely aiming for the center, thats not so much skill as probability

6 shoot into crowds, my favorite reason why dm sux, this is why people love dm i believe, you dont have to try hard to do relatively well, honestly how hard is it to get kills when theres a huge crowd of people who are steadily losing health because they are all shooting each other, grab an ssg and shoot into the crowd, more than likely someone will fall, not many people are at full health or have armor in a crowd, there just isnt enough to go around, so youre guaranteed to find a weakened player and pick him off, the nice thing is shooting in a crowd when you have bad aim, so in a crowd of A B AND C you shoot some sort of scatter weapon into the crowd, you aim for A, completely miss, and you kill C and maim B, not bad

so the conclusion i came to, why do i play dm? well besides the tourney server being empty, its easy(atleast on tastys servers), you dont have to devote alot of yourself to it, sure sometimes i have to try really hard to hit the frag limit (the only challenge in a dm server, after all, only one person can hit the frag per map), its relaxing in a way, its not stressful at all, and its fast paced, you just walk around a map, grab a good weapon, kill some newbs, shoot into crowds, hit the frag every once in a while, good times at a reasonably low level of effort, but of course this is all from my perspective, why do you all play dm?

now ill talk about tourney 1v1 and teamplayshortly, fewer players makes for a better game, it also slows the pace down which is what many people enjoy, which may be why many stay on the tasty spleen servers,
heres what i like most about 1v1 and teamplay

1.the problem of newbs is not a problem here, in fact they rarely go to the tourney server because they cant survive for very long outside of their womb of dm, hitting a frag limit is not an issue here, it is an arm wrestling match, strength against strength, no intereferences, or in team play, team work and synnergy pitted against another teams, of course sometimes a newb will land on a team in a 2v2 or 3v3 and ends up feeding the other team...hehe but its not as much of a problem
2.strategy here does not include the spammy shoot into the center of crowds, with grenades especially, in fact its the opposite, obviously if its a 1v1, spamming wont help you much since your opponent will dodge it easily as he is focused solely on you, likewise in a team game, spamming grenades is VERY bad ive seen some players try this strategy only to find their score lower due to team killing, you must be more careful and more precise, even with out spamming, its not uncommon to tk
3.because there is significantly less players on the map, getting armor is less of a rarity, and is much more worth it to go after because youre not locked in a race to hit the frag, you can take it more easy, play more careful and calculated
4.weapon control, this is difficult for some people, because if they are not used to the idea of weapon control, they end up runing around without a decent weapon because their opposition has taken all the good weapons and continue grabbing them, keeping you on the run, this is a good skill, as is the skill of sneaking by and eventually getting a weapon which isnt impossible if you live long enough, which is also why my next point is very important...
5.DONT DIE, no shit same as dm right, actually its much more important to not die in team play and 1v1, like i said before the less you die the better your score is in dm, however in tourney it is ALOT better for your score, you have to recall youre not playing for frag limit here, youre playing for who has the best score, dieing feeds your team the neccessary points to win, youre not just feeding some newb with a grenade launcher points this time, on top of that any time you die you lose all your stock of weapons, and in a game where weapons stay is off, looking for a weapon can be a B, on top of that youre easy pickings if you spawn close enough to someone who hears you, which is another point
6.sound control, this is such a top tier skill, you dont see them, you may not even be near them, you hear three clicks, you instantly dash to an area nearby a rocket launcher and rockets in order to cut them off and get the jump on them, this really gives people an advantage in maps
7.map routes, knowing the fastest routes to get to spots, this is important for chasing and cutting your opponent off, and juking your opponent and running away as fast as you can

as you can see, being good in tourney requires you to be alot better than in dm, the skills are more refined, and not easy to pick up like in dm, you must be precise in tourney, this is why better players come out of tourney

ive talked to alot of people about the transition between 1v1 and ffa, and some people like to think that its almost as different as two different mods, which i highly disagree with, i always made the point that someone from dm would do poorly in 1v1 because they are poor players, however someone who only 1v1s will do great in dm because he is a good player, there are differences, point 4 and 6 are completely new skills to dm players, and hence they suffer greatly from it, as those skills can really determine a match, however what skills does someone who only plays 1v1 who comes over to a dm server suffer from lacking? shootting into crowds? killing newbs? spamming a grenade launcher? these are hardly skills that must be learned and practiced, honestly if you can do good in tourney, you will excel in dm, because you have the additional aim, you have a more strategic mind, and you are not soft from killing newbs, i think my rail suffers when i go to dm, because newbs dont know how to dodge so i get spoiled

as you can see the two game modes arent that different, they still use the same basic skills of aiming and dodging, going for good weapons, however different aspects of each mode are what make the differences in the players, with the tourney player coming out as the superior player

so what are the values of each mod

if you want a relaxing time, if you just want to stroll through the gibs, play dm, especially vanilla, if you want a bit more challenge, while retaining the multiple targets and crowds that make aiming easier, play redmond i guess (havent played it myself), if you want to get better at quake, play a more comprehensive gaming mode that will teach you essential skills to becoming a top player, play tourney, im obviously more interested in being good at q2, why not, i like playing this great game, whether you agree with anything i have ever posted or not, you can all agree with me that q2 is a fucking great game, weve been playing it for how many years now? 7-8? thats a god damn long time, ive invested alot of time into q2, so i figure why not be good at something i spend alot of time doing

quake 2 has the best gameplay and strategy of any fps i have ever played

[Laurelin]

One Thing I personnally experienced when going back to DM after multiples 1v1/Teamplay. Is that I am more prudent (stop to hear, or to wait at some corner, etc...) and this is the kind of thing that you don't do in DM unless you wanna die. So perhaps that is a bad point about GXers going in a DM server - as the latter requires excessive jumping and running without really listening anything - More reflex-orientated than Duels/Teamplay.

Regards,
Laurelin

[banes]

One Thing I personnally experienced when going back to DM after multiples 1v1/Teamplay. Is that I am more prudent (stop to hear, or to wait at some corner, etc...) and this is the kind of thing that you don't do in DM unless you wanna die. So perhaps that is a bad point about GXers going in a DM server - as the latter requires excessive jumping and running without really listening anything - More reflex-orientated than Duels/Teamplay.

Regards,
Laurelin

what, how can you hear anything, lol, i was thinking about trying to listen for players today, i jus hear non stop explosions and shot gun blass

[Laurelin]

What I mean is that it's an habit transfered from Dueling to DM, which is just wrong.

A more relaxed playstyle which doesn't suit DM.

Regards,
Laurelin

[{TNP}Dukie]

cut through the noise
I have heard other players railguns humming when they are close enough

and thats on DM

[4u2superdave]

Banes, i won't disagree that GX takes a more refined, accurate set of skills to get good at it. I stink at GX, lol. But I have to ask why? Why are you on a FFA / DM server trying to play a GX style match? Wouldn't you be better off hanging out at a true GX server learning to improve by competing against another GX player. Have all the GX mod servers and players shut down?

[banes]

Banes, i won't disagree that GX takes a more refined, accurate set of skills to get good at it. I stink at GX, lol. But I have to ask why? Why are you on a FFA / DM server trying to play a GX style match? Wouldn't you be better off hanging out at a true GX server learning to improve by competing against another GX player. Have all the GX mod servers and players shut down?   

q2 servers are a dying breed on the brink of extinction

hals and the tasty spleen server are the ONLY 1v1 servers i play on now....so its not uncommon to find them empty, and even if they have people already in them, sometimes i dont like to sit it out and wait, i need quick action so i do go to tasty spleen, everyonce in a while i enjoy the spamtastic self indulgence of it, and somtimes when i really want a 1v1 match, and the tourney servers are empty, i go to tasty spleen server to talk shit to someone who might think theyre good trying to lure them into a 1v1

[[BTF]EyEsTrAiN]

1vs1 = Good

Teamplay = Better

FFA = Best

 

[pantaloons]

lets outline some points that become the basis for doing well in ffa
1.always head straight for the power weapons
2.always pick up armor(when its on the way)
3.memorize the skin of the crappiest players, then always make them a priority
4.use every weapon possible to kill
5.spam the grenade launcher
6.shoot into crowds
7.dont doddle, typing, alt tabbing, running around to obscure areas fetching the bfg, this is wasteful
8.memorize the skins of the best player, and keep him down
9. dont get hit/die

While I agree those sound like great bullet points for racking up frags, I was surprised at how several of these ideas are the complete opposite of how I like to play Q2.

I might memorize the skins of the crappiest players, but not to mow them down.

[QuakeDuke]

well hello again people, maybe im just asking to be flamed by making this thread, but id like to have an intelligent conversation about the differences between ffa and 1v1 and the value of each, id like to just have some intelligent discussion about it, but i wouldnt be surprised if the newbs that are filling my other thread with garbage dont come here and try to flame me

Intellegent dissusion? That's cool. Glad to see a thread *discussing* instead of *cussing* the diffs

Myself, it doesn't matter what I'm playing ffa, 1v1, ctf, whatever, I have fun. It's nice to win occasionally but with my situation it happens very sporadically. I keep getting my ass kicked but I keep coming back - why? To get better? Nope. Just to have fun.  Reason I hang on the xquake is because I've found it's been the one place where the servers are policed (bot wise) and MOST of the people who END UP STAYING have fairly good attitudes about playing the game. They're there to have fun. Geeze it IS just a game - I had enough of the real stuff to last me 5 lifetimes.

Could you define newb for me?. You say you can always tell the newbs by the way they move, turn etc (along with a lot of other descriptive things   )  Is a newb someone who's new to the game? Or is it a way of playing? Just courious - I hear the term a lot, but haven't yet seen a good definition - What I would mean by newb is probably a looooonnnngggg way from the way it's used in quake.

How long have I been playing? Me and some dudes from McConnell AFB put together a clan in the early days - called ourselves DoD we did. The "duke" skin (black and gold with the DoD on it) and other DoD skins - Beer, Inertia, etc were our skins. They've been out there a looonnnggg time.

I've been playing quake as long as there has been a quake (actually my MP experience started a long time before quake came out) - and 80%  of the time my quake mp has been on dialup. Not much way to turn or move quickly if your connection stays at 250+ -- and mine can vary between 30 (if I'm at my daughter's clinic) on a good day to multiple 1000's (on dialup, but as console will tell you I even hit that from time to time even at the clinic).

As for 1v1 - It's a lot of fun - I don't even mind losing 30 / 0 as long as I'm playing someone with a good attitude. Yes, attitude means a lot to me. As you can tell by the pic (and yes, it really is me), I'm not a youngster and while it's fun to win, with me it's always been just playin the game - real life (at least for me) has been and  is way to serious to take a game that serious, and while it seems to be the norm for some time now, I just can't seem to "get into" bad mouthing - guess I have a tendency to respect even those I don't know - until they give me reason otherwise..

Another thing with me is, I don't use a mouse. Never have, never will - keyboard all the way - That's enough for most to figure I ought to give it up. Tell ya what, run down to the corner drugstore and get you a couple full length wrist braces - the kind they use for carpal tunnel - strap them on as tight as you can get them and see how well you can use a mouse. My wrists are practically fused, along with my neck (c3-c7). I"ve got enough titanium steel in me to set off metal detectors. So, I guess, according to some's definiton I'll never be anything but a newb - should I give up? Well, I guess if I was playing just to rack up scores, show how "good" I am, "improve my skills" I should. But, using the dreaded phrase, I play to have fun.

For me 1v1 is ok. It can take some surprising turns depending on the map being played. I especially like CTF for any other type of teamplay - if you are playing with a group that isn't taking themselves too seriously - it can be a real hoot. I like "defending" the home turf.

dm/ffa for me is ideal with 8-10 players on a medium sized map - unless, of course, it's rails only. Then I don't care what size it is. While I'm talking about rails - one of the things I don't like (but I'm not gonna whine or quit playing the game just cause I don't) is jacking up the gamma where there's no longer any shadows. The shadows were put into the maps for a reason - to make it easier to hide and frag someone from a distance. Is it a cheat? I wouldn't go that far but it DOES remove a lot of options for strategy no matter you're playin ffa, 1v1, or any kind of team play. Kinda like night recon in the jungle - you can have NV but there's still a hell of a lot of stuff you can't see - until someone moves.

I think each style, mod, whatever you want to call it has it's advantages and disadvantages depending on what you want to put into/get out of them, but they can all be (here comes that phrase again) a lot of fun.

I'd be glad to 1v1 you, you'll probably stomp all over me - but, so what? It'd be fun. Let me know sometime and we'll drop over to the railz, mutant or whatever - As of the present, until I can figure out why I keep sig 11(linux ya know) and dropping out (Hey fanny, any idea why?)  I can't join the tourney server. Happens to me on the FAS servers as well. Don't have a clue since it only happens on one or two servers and It's not important enough for me to build a win box just to play on a particular server.

I know, before ya jump on it - not much in here about the differences between the two - but geeze, get 50 people together about it and you'll have 50 diffrent opions , which is what you want, and which this is mine.

 I will agree with you on one point - "quake 2 has the best gameplay and strategy of any fps i have ever played" - and I'll add this, it's that way no matter whether you're playing dm/ffa/1v1/ctf/teamplay or whatever. I'd say, In the end, that's probably why those of us who have been playing it since the begining keep on playing it regardless of it being archaic (for a computer game) and why it keeps attracting new players.

'nuff said.
"It's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum... now where'd I put them damn teef?"

Let's Rock!

QD

[QuakeDuke]

Always head straight for the grenades.  Power schmower. 
Spamming the grenade launcher and shooting into crowds sounds boring to me.  I get more enjoyment from really fun or humorous circumstances surrouncing individual frags, than from racking up a large number of bland/easy frags.

You and you're dang 'nades!!
Look out now, you don't wanna have too much fun...

QD

[[BTF]EyEsTrAiN]

QuakeDuke Rules!
I think that might have been the greatest post I have ever read...

[10zx]

you people type too much

[banes]

Intellegent dissusion? That's cool. Glad to see a thread *discussing* instead of *cussing* the diffs

rofl thats so corny its funny
youve got a real good attitude duke, thats pretty cool

you know whats ironic, when i first got into q2 i TOO was in a clan called DoD, while yours prolly stood for department of defense or something, our clan stood for disciples of doom rofl we were all such newblets back then, i was still just using keyboard, but before i left dod i ended up learning how to use the mouse while playing ctf

and as far as my definition of newb, well i use it just to describe someone who just isnt that good, basically a scrub, someone who lacks alot of skill, so as to resemble a beginner, however of course newbies actually mean someone who is new, not just crappy, by that definition newbies can even be good assuming someone could have so much natural talent, but ya i pretty much just use it to refer to someone who sucks

and pantaloons, i see how you can differ on all those points, but i can also see how you wouldnt hit too many frag limits either those basic points were more geared towards how to hit the fraglimit, but i neglected the fact that for people who are not as likely to hit the frag limit probably have different goals and ways of enjoying ffa

[QuakeDuke]

QuakeDuke Rules!
I think that might have been the greatest post I have ever read...

..aww shucks!!...  (drops head and scuffs foot and blushes..))


QD