new r1q2 anti-cheat

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

Have you ever seen a corpse suddenly shift positions in game, where it's in one spot then suddanly another, due to some glitch. Net or packet glitch I suppose.
Well that's what it's like. I'm in one position with a rocket heading my way, but not close enough to hit me, then suddenly my position shifts just enough to meet the rocket.?????
Think it's just a fluke thing, but has actually happened more than once.

[[BTF]Defiant!]

Have you ever seen a corpse suddenly shift positions in game, where it's in one spot then suddanly another, due to some glitch. Net or packet glitch I suppose.
Well that's what it's like. I'm in one position with a rocket heading my way, but not close enough to hit me, then suddenly my position shifts just enough to meet the rocket.?????
Think it's just a fluke thing, but has actually happened more than once.

I think I have an explanation, but it involves a bit about how the game network code works.

1) When you play, what you see from other players all comes from the server.  In other words, the server tells you where the rockets are, where ToxicMonkey is, etc..

2) When you play, your game reads your mouse and keyboard inputs and sends the resulting movement updates to the server, which, in turn, sends the updates to other players.  This is how other people see where you are, how you are oriented, etc..

Here is where it gets more complex..
3) When you press a key to jump, it would figure that your game would send a packet of information to the server saying that deathstalker is jumping.  Then the server would send information back to you and all players that you are jumping.  This is what happens.. but it would be a pretty lowsy gaming experience if this was all there was to it.  Why?  Well, there could be a quarter second between you pressing jump and the packet getting to the server and back to your computer.  If you played like this, you would find the game very laggy.   So, instead, your local game PREDICTS what the server will say happened as a result of you jumping.  (The amount of prediction is configurable in some games, likely in q2 also.)

Here is where it gets more interesting.. 
4) So, what happens if what your client thinks and what the server thinks are different?  Well, the server always wins out!  The server defines the truth of what goes on in the game.  (If the server didn't people could compile their own client, or edit memory on their computer, or other things, to cause the server to think you have super powers.. like "hey server, I have 1,000,000 health now!).

An example..
5) Deathstalker just picked up the RL and is jumping to the alcove.  Defiant is in the alcove and just jumped toward the RL.  In the following microseconds.. Deathstalker's game seems to show that he made it to the alcove.  Defiant's game seems to show that he made it to the RL.  BUT, the server realizes that both ran into each other mid-air and sends an update to both of them saying "Naaah, you are on the way to lavaville".  And both players say, "What the heck!  I made it, what am I doing in the lava!"

So coming back to your description.   Perhaps the person firing the rocket sees the pattern of where you are going, and fires predictively to position X.  You are making a jump or moving, and perhaps due to higher latency/lag, your game seems to show that you are at position Y, but the server corrects your client to show you at position X.. blam, rocket hit.

This whole set of examples is hard to appreciate unless you have played on a modem.

Def

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

AAaaaaahhhhh, I reasonable explanation. Thank You

[[BTF] Reflex]

Absatively Correctamundo on the modem call

aside from being hit by a rail when I am already WAY behind cover, it happens alot
with jumps.

[{TNP}Dukie]

In this particular case, I have been both the LPB chasing after someone AND the one shooting rockets behind me in hopes of getting a kill. =D

In my case it counts for at least half of my frags due to the combination of "high ping + slow reflexes + horrible aim"   

[Art]

When I'm ingame, it probably accounts for much more than half. I just can't get it outta my head that dialup Dukie = easy frags and always follow you around corners. Bam!, rocket or grenade in the face.

 

[Jay Dolan]

Reflex, demos wouldn't show such discrepencies as there's no prediction or frame interpolation when viewing demos.  You are viewing each frame the server sent you, verbatim.  In fact, a demo would be the best way to clarify any "robbed frags" you think you've suffered.  The lack of prediction and interpolation is also why fast movements are jerky in demo playback.

[cyberneticimplant]

Use it, fine.  But require it?  That'd be absurd.

Agreed.

[applejacks]

i tried the r1q2 client back in the day and didnt like it

i stick to the plain ole id point release 3.21 from back in the day.

forcing people to use a client they do not want? Last time i checked the tastyspleen servers were no t under communist rule.

but just because your running a certain client does not mean your still not cheating.  Other clients have been hacked before. Some were hacked with in a few hours upon release.

i can recall even some hacks/tricks to fool server side checks that you were running a certain client.

Some servers that did force clients to use certain clients. Well that was the start of the end of that server. People would just move on and find somewhere else to play.

weeeee

[[BTF] Reflex]

Reflex, demos wouldn't show such discrepencies as there's no prediction or frame interpolation when viewing demos.

[naymlis]

cl_predict 0

[Fluffy Bunny [Wuss]]

I couldn't agree more with you DS. Playing against players who are pinging over 250 and they have the most incredible moves, speed and aim. Hey I've played on servers with over 200 ping and I can hardly move or react. Latley on the servers I play on I too have been chained from around the corner and railed the same way or through a wall.

I don't normally get mad about it I just play through it or leave. I do on occasion get mouthy about it when I have had a few vodkas, but by then I am playing so shitty that I should just STFU.

Now about NoCheat, I agree with Haunted on this, all NoCheat clients should be refused.
Naw not really, BUT !!!
Well how can I put this, Hmmm.
Well, I STRONGLY believe 90% of NoCheaters ARE cheaters. And NO ONE can ever convince me different.

I have seen it TOO MANY TIMES.
Someone logs on with the NoCheat call and you know beyond a shadow of a dought, right then and there, whether you recognize the alias or not, within 2min they are going to completely dominate the game, each and every time, no matter what.
This comes from over 5 years of playing and seeing the same thing time and time again without fail.
Even with over a 200ping.
The only people I have EVER seen these players loose to is OTHER Nocheat players.

I know ya'll might think this sounds crazy, but I swear i've been chain gunned "after" I have already turned a corner in avoidance, as if the bullets actually followed me around the durn corner !!!
And don't even get me started about how many times it felt like I actually got "sucked" into a rockets path.
That's just plain wierd when that happens.

[[BTF]adam]

uhm haunted pings 230+ and still moves incredibly fast.. I dont think ping matters for movement, seeing as he could be considered an awesome mover/jumper..

[[BTF]DeathStalker]

It was kind of funny. I think his angle was, "I have to use the NoCheat client.. I can't use r1q2 or others if they don't support my beloved software mode!" The thing was... I checked his vid_ref, and it was "gl"!!! So he wasn't even using software. Apparently he's just making up lies 'cause he doesn't want to give up his haxxored NoCheat client.


Regards,

HAH, See, I told ya I told ya I told ya I told ya.

Straight from the console

This is why I hate to see a NoCheat Client user log on.

I already know whats coming.

[[BTF] Reflex]

Have you ever seen a corpse suddenly shift positions in game, where it's in one spot then suddanly another, due to some glitch. Net or packet glitch I suppose.

just saw this,  its not that.  Q2 only has room for 8 bodies.   When a 9th needs to be layed,  it "moves" the first one to where
it needs to be,  in a perfetly straight line, and VERY fast.  Sound right anybody?