is MCS_FaderJok0 legit winner div4 EDL

[|iR|Focalor]

cl_whogivesafuck

[haunted]

I didn't say that. Allow me to repeat what I said for the 3rd time:

"..if you're not good with r1q2 + your settings right + a good pak, then using aprq2 isn't going to make you any better."

None of your post has anything to do with this fact. and like I said before:

..if you want to use backwards logic that prevents you from attending tournaments then be my guest. No one is stopping you.

and as I also previously said, you are welcome to do so because the vast majority of our community do not consider it a loss.

[quadz]

In R1Q2, if you move the mouse wheel and you don't have anything bound to them, it gives this annoying messages constantly:

MWHEELUP is unbound, hit F4 to set.
MWHEELDOWN is unbound, hit F4 to set.

..unless you unbind them. I don't feel like typing "unbind mwheelup;unbind mwheeldown" every time I open up Q2

This makes no sense. Just bind them to nothing one time in autoexec.cfg ?

there's this nifty feature where if you type a command in AprQ2 and press tab, if gives you all the commands that are related to it.

in r1q2: set cl_cmdcomplete 2 in autoexec.cfg

[fdrjk]

asd

[haunted]

Anyways, this argument is finished. There is NO convincing someone otherwise on a point they feel is absolute.

What point that you feel is absolute/concrete do you have that refutes this, in regard to competing in tournaments:

"..if you're not good with r1q2 + your settings right + a good pak, then using aprq2 isn't going to make you any better."

 

[Whirlingdervish]

EGL has it's own renderer and allows the loading of .md3 models without a cvar, and bc of your buddy, md3 spikes abound. thank you Razor.

APRQ2 has been shown to have a wallhack version out there that supposedly fools anticheat. It also allows for md3 model usage, which due to the low availability of legit md3 models, is usually used for spikes. Everyone heard of these problems thanks to your buddy. again, thank you Razor.

Q2Pro is used by maybe 1% of all q2 players, and 99% of them are Russians not likely to play in a tournament in NA or Euroland.

[VaeVictis]

id use q2pro if it had just a couple of features from r1q2 its cool

but really if you play tourney, ya might as well run r1q2 cause it will be the best for ya

[Muerte]

Agreed, Q2Pro is actually a very well done client that had a lot of potential. Unfortunately skuller had some kind of moral objection to the way the anticheat system worked and stopped supporting it in his client.

I am aware Q2PRO has a much nicer renderer - I am not very good with OpenGL or 3D graphics in general, so R1GLs improvements are limited at best. If you prefer Q2PRO over R1Q2 then by all means use Q2PRO. As I've stated many times, R1Q2 as a client is "my" client - if you like it, great, but I designed it based on what I wanted out of a Q2 client. I'd be happy to support anticheat in a new Q2PRO release, but as the only releases at present are nightly releases, it is impossible to add support for every one. Adding anticheat support not only involves a source code review for potential cheat features, but many internal functions have to be updated and most likely a new anticheat.dll to support changes to the client which is quite time-consuming. If and when SkulleR makes a new stable release, I'll work on integrating anticheat into it.

[quadz]

Here's a Google translated post from quake2.com.ru forums:

At one time, out of idle curiosity, I otreversil communication protocol with the anti-cheat server, and I did not like what I saw. In fact, this backdoor, which provides an encrypted channel anticheat server access to your computer, clearly goes beyond the search for cheats loaded into memory.

Elysium - do you have the quake2.com.ru forum link to this post handy?

I'm wondering if any additional info was provided, as I find SkulleR's claims above suspiciously lacking in detail.

If I were to find something questionable in anticheat.dll, I'd be posting disassembly of the relevant code, decrypted network messages read from buffers, etc.

If SkulleR is merely saying: anticheat.dll encrypts its message channel to the AC root server; well, yes.  Isn't that what one would expect?

[Muerte]

At one time, out of idle curiosity, I otreversil communication protocol with the anti-cheat server, and I did not like what I saw. In fact, this backdoor, which provides an encrypted channel anticheat server access to your computer, clearly goes beyond the search for cheats loaded into memory. The very least I have it on my work machine would never have found

Guided same suspicion few years back i got legit solution to 'stop' rich 'curiosity' and still be ac valid, but last week in irc.chat with onlyone trustworthy EDL admin i realized and shared with him: same solution could be used to 'fool' ac server and exploit cheats

tested 'my solution' today on df.nl


http://youtu.be/3tVB_poUto8

PS. further information will be shared only with tastyspleen 'officials' admins and league admins

[skuller]

If SkulleR is merely saying: anticheat.dll encrypts its message channel to the AC root server; well, yes.  Isn't that what one would expect?

I was saying that I would expect anticheat to search just for active Quake 2 cheats currently loaded into memory, yet the anticheat protocol readily provides commands to read arbitrary directories and files from disk outside of Quake 2 base directory. While I suppose these commands have some semi-legitimate purpose (searching for offline cheats? checking for modified system files? maybe even scanning web browser history for cheating sites?), they are a security hole if someone gains unauthorized access to anticheat server and/or data stored there. (Anyway, silent anticheat.dll auto-update feature itself is a big security hole as well). Very little is known about how anticheat server is run, what user data exactly is preserved, etc. Earlier versions of anticheat.dll didn't event check server certificate making man-in-the-middle attacks on anticheat message channel possible.

I understand anticheat would be less efficient without these features, so they are perhaps "necessary evil". What I don't really like is that how many servers and even leagues are requiring use of anticheat lately. Instead of requiring known or suspected cheaters to use anticheat in order to play, they are forcing many legitimate players deliberately install a "backdoor" on their system and put their privacy to risk. I no longer want to make my client part of this.

[Whirlingdervish]

so where would you propose looking on someone's computer for cheats like generic memory/script injection programs?

not a single one of those would be installed in the quake 2 folder, and the memory they are hooking is not always directly linked to the memory that the client or renderer is using.
if you're trying to make an opengl wallhack, you don't necessarily have to hook specific functions in the quake 2 renderer to get the job done.


I don't understand why you would expect anticheat to be limitted only to the quake 2 folder, or only to the memory environment that the game is using. R1CH has never claimed that to my knowledge.

If it was limitted in that fashion it would not be anywhere near as effective at detecting generic cheats, and logging the use of new ones that are not yet blacklisted.

I also don't really see why it is such an imposition to knowingly put a "backdoor" as you call it, on your system when you can easily delete that backdoor at will. Thousands of people run punkbuster, and it's just as privately controlled and harder to get rid of in some cases.

Putting the burden of proof on the league admins to prove people aren't legit before they force anticheat for the league matches is just silly. These are volunteer leagues, in terms of participants and administrators.
There would never be another q2 league if people were not expected to prove their legitimacy while playing online in a competitive setting, or if the admins all had to magically know who was and was not legit before every tournament.

[Muerte]

Putting the burden of proof on the league admins to prove people aren't legit before they force anticheat for the league matches is just silly.

They could just chose to ignore anticheat

on same page 'well known' Razor and EDL 9/10 finalist David

http://cheaters.planetquake.pl/index.php?hack_type=modified-client

[quadz]

PS. further information will be shared only with tastyspleen 'officials' admins and league admins

Could you PM me with further info?  Or contact me on IRC?  (i'm on enterthegame.com and globalgamers.net)


Thanks

[haunted]

So... I tested what muerte used in his youtube clip, and confirmed it. Also confirmed that it lasts well over the duration of a league match. You can see all entities except skins due to the NC_visibility_check cvar. However, there are certain instances at certain distances were entities have a higher tendency to be seen through the wall.. also, if a pixel of the person is visible, it will show their entire skin. It could easily be abused if you recognized those aforementioned tendencies, and perhaps attacking corners heavily/aggressively to encourage the likelihood of you seeing a pixel of the skin.. I used a 5-6 year old wallhack opposed to muerte's 10-11 year, and I was missing a certain file so I had to take a screenshot very quickly among the missing file spam, but it shows me AC valid with 0 missing files.



If any of you ever notice, "haunted" received his first 3 AC hall of shame entries while testing this/getting it to work.. it was at tourney.

EDIT: don't be fooled by the top of the ss being cut off.. I am not "exempt"...missing file spam was just ridiculous, it reads:

+----------------+--------+-----+------+
|  Player Name   |AC Valid|Files|Client|
+----------------+--------+-----+------+
|WallFly[BZZZ]   | exempt | N/A | N/A  |
|haunted         |   yes  |   0 |R1Q2  |
+----------------+--------+-----+------+