Please bring back vanilla rail with original settings

[inhuman]

Console, please reconsider putting up a port with the original vanilla q2 railz settings.

Here are some of my reasons:
- I hate the OSP feel for railz; maybe its ok with tourney and all, but for railz its a totally different feel
- i hate the "gibbed" effect. I enjoy when a railshot throws a corpse across the screen
- I like spawning wo/ rail - it gives an element of strategy to the game, especially against a skilled player
- i like the original railgun reload times
- it feels laggier than original vanilla q2- maybe its my connect 

I hope others will voice their opinions in bringing back the old railz port. thanks everyone

  

[console]

Console, please reconsider putting up a port with the original vanilla q2 railz settings.

Here are some of my reasons:
- I hate the OSP feel for railz; maybe its ok with tourney and all, but for railz its a totally different feel

As far as I can tell, the physics have not changed.  Anyone else have any input on the physics?  Even though I'm a n00b jumper, I loaded q2dm1 and could do all the standard box jumps in the mega room, felt just like vanilla q2 to me.

- i hate the "gibbed" effect. I enjoy when a railshot throws a corpse across the screen

inhumaN, if you search the forums for "corpse" you'll find multiple threads where folks are asking for the railgun damage to be turned up so that it does not leave corpses.  For ex:

http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=360.0

http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=708.0

The only thing I changed to get the "instagib" was to turn the railgun damage up from 100 to 1000.

This seems like an aesthetic issue, so we can certainly set it either way - but so far we've had more requests for "no corpses" than "yay corpses!" 

- I like spawning wo/ rail - it gives an element of strategy to the game, especially against a skilled player

OK.  One of the reasons I wanted spawning with rail is it allows us to play several rail maps (that I uploaded yesterday) that we couldn't play before, such as ehwpit.bsp. m1.bsp, etc.  These maps have no weapons or items on them, so until we switched to a mod that allowed "spawn with rail", these maps with no items on them were useless unless you like blaster wars. 

But I understand your comment about the strategy.  Does anyone else have any thoughts, pro or con?

- i like the original railgun reload times

I didn't change the railgun reload times - they should be the same.  Anyone else seeing a difference?

- it feels laggier than original vanilla q2- maybe its my connect 

Strange, the only other comments I'd gotten so far was that if anything, the new mod felt smoother than the old one.  Anyone else getting a laggier feel?


Thanks for your comments inhumaN. 


Regards,

[Punk_FAS]

On most rail-only servers, the rail reload time is roughly half of what it is in normal DM.  I much prefer the DM or default rail reload time, since that helps your timing for DM too, and it's less spam, or just holding down the fire button and hoping to get a shot.

[[BTF] Reflex]

but is it diff on the new setup?

Imma go investigate

hmmm..  timing seems the same as dm
physics seem the same as I'[ve always known

and yeah...  no bodies is kewl...  I usually spent a lil time shooting bodies
to keep it clean anyhow

[[BTF]Gator]

i like things the way the are now as opposed to the way they were previous to now.

Perhaps all the unhappy people could post.  If enough people are unhappy, maybe console could throw the original server up on another port if there is any performance left to squeeze out of poor machine/bandwidth.

So far, i think i have heard one or two complaints, but have memories of many, many (30+ players?) of the previous set up.

[UUD-40]

I hate corpses laying around, I would spend about 1/4 my time shooting bodies. 
I would prefer spawning with a rail... I hate Blaster vs. Railgun fights...

 

[inhuman]

well, ive said my say... and im sure that there are a lot of players who agree with me, but dont check these forums to voice their opinions. i just hope in the end that there will be another port to rail in bc until then im going to hate every minute i play instagib... if at all

thx

[plastik]

thank you for your input. 

inhuman: we will not change settings because 2 players are unhappy with the new settings, atleast give it a good try first.  as for you saying you won't play railz anymore, then don't.  tastyspleen will not bow down to change from threats of a few players not likeing the settings and implicating that they will not play anymore if it is not changed.  I'm sure you said it to use it as some small leverage to prove your point that the settings are horrible to your liking.  there are a few reasons why spawn with rails are better....

1) you don't have to spend time searching for a weapon, and sometimes this can take a while.  If you spawn without a weapon, then everyone else who has a weapon will see that and come after you for an easy cheap kill.  I myself, and many others have been spawn raped dozens of times in a single map, as soon as we spawn or step off the pad, bam, dead, spawn again, bam dead.  It can get very annoying, and also it can set your score back by 10 under everyone else getting spawn raped that much....then it changes the game from skill to just sheer luck that your going to even get ahold of a weapon before your shot.

2) Dead Bodies are also your enemy, when a map has nothing but dead bodies around, you have to actually do alot more jump shots instead of from the ground, and even that might not help.  I know that theres plenty of times I have not hit my target due to the fact they were behind bodies.  This is also another limiting factor to your score.  in a map with 10+ people, after everyone gets 5 frags or so, there could be 50 bodies lying around...it is eventually going to happen that they will get in the way or make you miss your target.

3) Alot of people like to baby-sit weapons and ammo and stuff on servers, they know you don't have anything to defend yourself with..you see them and they see you, but they just hold their crosshairs on the weapons, and wait until you try to obtain it, then bam, your dead, not only did you not get the weapon, your probably spawn-raped 5x's after that.

I don't see how anyone can see these problems as adding skill or strategy to a game..sure, they are obstacles...but they do more harm to average gameplay than good.  they are just annoying nuiscances.


As for the rail load times, I have not noticed any difference yet, so I do not know if it is faster or slower.

The only problem with the new settings I can see is the spawn protect doesn't last too long, but thats not necessarily a bad thing.  When you spawn with a rail, and if someone is camping the pad, you atleast have the chance to fire back, and i'd say the chances of you vs. them getting a frag are 50/50, so it's pretty fair there. 

Spawning with rails will add more playing time to your game, and increase everyones chance of getting a higher score quicker...so maps will move along much quicker, and you don't have to spend 50% of the time or more searching for weapons.  The only reason why I could see anyone wanting a non-spawn with rails game is so they can exclusively chase people without a weapon, and get those cheap, easy frags.  If everyone doesn't have a weapon at the same time, the game is not fair at all.  it then becomes more of a game of chance and luck (such as the chance you can make it to a rail before your fragged, or the chance your spawned and not spawn raped, or the chance you atleast spawn near a weapon)  than it already is.  I bet if you look at the logs of the railz server, the times for a map being loaded, then the fraglimit reached, have probably dimished significantly.  More maps, more frags, and in less time...who could ask for me?  The only conclusion I can come up with is that the original railz settings suited you best because you enjoyed hiding behind bodies not to get fragged, and enjoyed spawn raping people, and enjoyed rail-raping people without weapons.

I think the root of your problem is the fact that since everyone has railz and it is a completely fair game.  And since everyone has a rail all at once now, there are more shots being fired per minute and second than ever before.  This can make the game a bit hectic, and you will still need good dodging skills, especially when they are coming from all directions.  but thats the price you pay for fairness, and this is the results Ive been speaking of having for some time.

[inhuman]

plastik, i have been giving the server a try but im not trying to threaten a boycott here. If you think its some sort of ploy for leverage then youre wrong. My voice is a small one but im still putting it out there- isnt that what the forums are for? If you dont like it, then dont listen... or if you plan to listen, then at least take everything with a grain of salt and some fucking respect. isnt that what your mother taught you?

its not that i disagree with anything uve said (in fact many of your points are valid), its just that i dont appreciate the personal pot shots. if you want my respect, then I certainly advise you to tone down your hot shot attitude and respect my opinions and not come up with a tone that is self-aggrandizing.

with that in mind, i wont respond further. thanks

[console]

inhuman: we will not change settings because 2 players are unhappy with the new settings, atleast give it a good try first.  as for you saying you won't play railz anymore, then don't.  tastyspleen will not bow down to change from threats of a few players not likeing the settings and implicating that they will not play anymore if it is not changed.

Respectfully, probably only server admins should be making statements about what we will or won't do.

I would like to find a way for everyone to be happy with the settings.  When that's not possible, indeed we're likely to settle on whatever is requested by the majority of players, if we can determine that.

The only problem with the new settings I can see is the spawn protect doesn't last too long, but thats not necessarily a bad thing.

Is the spawn protect working at all now?  I tried setting it to 1.0 seconds, but I couldn't tell if it was working at all.  I was thinking it might be broken.


Regards,

[[BTF] Reflex]

np Inhuman,  like anothers signature I liked..

    Speak your mind,  even if your voice cracks.

think its a jfk quote

[plastik]

As I said at the beginning of my post, thank you for your input....I was in no way telling you NOT to voice your opinion, just my thoughts on how you came to it.  The only thing i did not like about your post was that you basicly, in my eyes 'threatened' not to use the railz server anymore if these settings are not changed.  threatened is a strong word....but very relative to the situation.   I just don't see how anyone that doesn't like to do those lame things, would not enjoy the server.

I just see alot of people saying on the forums, 'if this doesn't change, then i will not play here anymore'  ALOT.    not taking a shot at ax2grind, but still, same principal, difference circumstances.

My post was not made as a 'pot shot' towards you.   I'm sorry if im not always politically correct, but theres too much of that floating around that causes arguements like this, needlessly.  going into details and technicalities.   In case people haven't realized, whether someone is right or not, they can twist only a few words around and make themselves appear correct when they indeed aren't actually.
another thing about these forums I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW, just because you talk 'properly' at all time and use big words, please don't feel like that knowledge protects you from being wrong, or makes you correct.  If you pay attention, and are on the forums enough like I am, you notice this phenomenon very quickly. 
----------------------------------------------------
I STATED
"I'm sure you said it to use it as some small leverage to prove your point that the settings are horrible to your liking. "
 YOU STATED
"If you think its some sort of ploy for leverage then youre wrong."

so it is my understanding that you didn't say those things to prove your point of why the settings should be changed back?   this is what I mean about people being too politically correct or reading things incorrectly, often thinking things and attaching them to the sentence, which do not have any place there.
----------------------------------------------------
NOTE: if you notice I did not use any vulgar words in my sentences AT ALL (though you did).   And remember, this is text, text has no tone...we give text tone, and that is where mistakes in meaning are made.  if anything, there was only malice like statements towards those who enjoy spawn raping, babysitting weapons, etc. 

There was no sentence in there saying 'STFU' or 'We don't want to hear your opinions'

I respected your opinions, and countered with my own, nothing more, nothing less.
If anything, you post was trashing me, and not the other way around.  It is delusional to think otherwise.

Also, It is ever more disrespectful to tell me how to type when I do post.  You should not expect that kind of control over me.

'If you dont like it, then dont listen... or if you plan to listen, then at least take everything with a grain of salt and some fucking respect.'

Again, please follow your own advice, because you have not taken anything I've said with ANYTHING but one grain of respect, nothing more, as shown by your post.

Last thing, I do not come here for respect or popularity..So I will treat whom I want how I want, even if it causes me to be banned, or at the very least hated.  I will stand by my opinions and ideas.  I would rather be hated for who I am, then loved for who I am not, unlike ALOT of people out there.

===

console: like i stated in my post, the spawn protect does wear off almost too quickly, but the downside of upping the spawn protect time is that they have a rail and are spawn protected, so they can get shot and not die, and it will allow them enough time to squeeze off a shot....this, in any sense, is cheating, due to the fact the spawner can not be killed, but can kill, for a brief moment.  so thats why I said it is pretty fair for the most part, since both are unprotected and armed. 

[KobraKlaws]

plastik, i have been giving the server a try but im not trying to threaten a boycott here. If you think its some sort of ploy for leverage then youre wrong. My voice is a small one but im still putting it out there- isnt that what the forums are for? If you dont like it, then dont listen... or if you plan to listen, then at least take everything with a grain of salt and some fucking respect. isnt that what your mother taught you?

its not that i disagree with anything uve said (in fact many of your points are valid), its just that i dont appreciate the personal pot shots. if you want my respect, then I certainly advise you to tone down your hot shot attitude and respect my opinions and not come up with a tone that is self-aggrandizing.

with that in mind, i wont respond further. thanks

You summed up this community as a whole, I agree.

Nice avatar, by the way.

[PANTONE 7717C]

[offtopic] (console, please consider this map:-) http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=1355.0 [/offtopic]

[KobraKlaws]

[offtopic] (console, please consider this map:-) http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=1355.0 [/offtopic]

Looks like a suitable map to me judging by the screenshots.  Probably would have no problem replacing one of the garbage maps on the rotation with it.  I mean, the absolute worst map of all-time called 4box6 managed to stay on the rotation for months.