Scale of the Universe 2.

[ex]

And as far as reaper's "preaching" goes, "god" was invented as a control mechanism for society to keep people in fear and in line.  However, reaper made a good point that the Big Bang is not all encompassing, as certain realms have yet to be discovered, as the breakdown of mathematics in black holes, quasars, and other unexplainable phenomenon occurs.

However however, this does not mean that saying "god" allowed this to be is a proper answer.  The correct answer is we haven't figured it out yet.

I know I'm gonna probably get into a huge debate with this one, but I have to say it.

God doesn't exist.  Every day science proves more and more that god was made up by religious rulers to control populations.

There it is.  Deal with it.

[QwazyWabbit]

Richard Feynman on understanding the universe.
http://www.wimp.com/understandinguniverse/

And Lawrence Krauss' brilliant presentation on the universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdvWrI_oQjY

[Arm0r]

Harmoniousness of life?   smiley_abqt  You're being serious?   What in thee fuck, is so "harmonious" about life?   The universe is so non-life friendly it's insane

har·mo·ni·ous  (här-mn-s)
adj.
1. Exhibiting accord in feeling or action.
2. Having component elements pleasingly or appropriately combined: a harmonious blend of architectural styles.
3. Characterized by harmony of sound; melodious

If you think this 1/10000000th grain of sand we call earth is good enough to make that statement I have to call bullshit.  Explanation please?

I consider the definition to be about balance, in a sense related to the 2nd definition above.  I'm sure a preacher could better explain.

Fuck man, I got trolled. 

[peewee_RotA]

"god" was invented as a control mechanism for society to keep people in fear and in line.

I find it ironic that in a discussion about evidence to support an understanding of the universe, blatantly subjective statements about religion are expected to fly without offering proof.

Please provide the cuneiform tablet where ancient cultures postulate that idol worship is the best form of crowd control.  

[quadz]

"god" was invented as a control mechanism for society to keep people in fear and in line.

I find it ironic that in a discussion about evidence to support an understanding of the universe, blatantly subjective statements about religion are expected to fly without offering proof.

Indeed; a reply along similar lines has been languishing on my TO-DO list.

I do like Christopher Hitchens' take on religion's origins, however:

Religion is part of the human make-up. It's also part of our cultural and intellectual history. Religion was our first attempt at literature: the texts; our first attempt at cosmology: making sense of where we are in the universe; our first attempt at health care: believing in faith healing; our first attempt at philosophy.
[...]
It was our first attempt at psychiatric care, at dealing with terrible loneliness of the human condition.

It is the worst attempt, but partly because it was the first.

[peewee_RotA]

I do like Christopher Hitchens' take on religion's origins, however:

Religion is part of the human make-up. It's also part of our cultural and intellectual history. Religion was our first attempt at literature: the texts; our first attempt at cosmology: making sense of where we are in the universe; our first attempt at health care: believing in faith healing; our first attempt at philosophy.
[...]
It was our first attempt at psychiatric care, at dealing with terrible loneliness of the human condition.

It is the worst attempt, but partly because it was the first.

I have to say I find that to be a very funny anectdote. I have a tendency to just nitpick every little bit of it so I'll restrain myself and leave it as it is. 

[reaper]

I do agree (and this was my point) that the universe is continually expanding

When we put the telescopes in space and on the whole everything is moving further away, at least the parts of the universe where light has had times to reach us, to me, that's saying everything we can see is moving away, and along with many other tests confirms that space is expanding and everything is spreading outwards.

But to say the universe is a closed system when we can't see past a certain point, and when we can't really even "see" outside our solar system, should put even more emphasis on the word theory.

[Arm0r]

You won't be satisfied with any argument that doesn't involve jesus.  I'd say pretty much debating anything with you is wasteful of anyones time.

[reaper]

You won't be satisfied with any argument that doesn't involve jesus.  I'd say pretty much debating anything with you is wasteful of anyones time.

Almost nowhere in any of my forum posts have I even said the word jesus.  I have been arguing that scientists have shown no alternative explanation to a higher power.  They are "understanding nature", but using the wrong tools to do it.

[QwazyWabbit]

You won't be satisfied with any argument that doesn't involve jesus.  I'd say pretty much debating anything with [reaper] is wasteful of anyones time.

Ding!

[QwazyWabbit]

You won't be satisfied with any argument that doesn't involve jesus.  I'd say pretty much debating anything with you is wasteful of anyones time.

Almost nowhere in any of my forum posts have I even said the word jesus.  I have been arguing that scientists have shown no alternative explanation to a higher power.  They are "understanding nature", but using the wrong tools to do it.

Yes, they have. It's called elimination of the need for a higher power. You just can't accept any kind of "understanding" that isn't derived from some kind of mystical experience.

[ex]

"god" was invented as a control mechanism for society to keep people in fear and in line.

I find it ironic that in a discussion about evidence to support an understanding of the universe, blatantly subjective statements about religion are expected to fly without offering proof.

Please provide the cuneiform tablet where ancient cultures postulate that idol worship is the best form of crowd control.  

Oh boy, here we go.

King Constantine I, the organizer of the Christian religion, in 313 CE convened a group of headsmen and rulers of the Roman empire to form a religion for the people to believe in.  The one sole purpose:  to keep his society under control, and in fear, so that they wouldn't speak up against him for terror of "god" killing them and sending them to "hell."  Constantine knew the story of sacrifice and martyrdom would infuse itself into the human psyche very well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_and_Christianity

Read the parts where Christian emperorship begins, and learn.

and http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/why/legitimization.html

You can shove that lolsign up your ass, friend. 

Also, "idol worship" was THE cornerstone of Greek and Hebrew cultures, as well as almost every society dating back to the earliest historical records, the Sumerian culture, rife with idolatry and "god" worship, all based on the leaders/shamans starting it, knowing that it was an excellent way to save society from turning to anarchy.

[peewee_RotA]

Your post suggests a lot of strange assertions not supported by the wikipedia article.

Aditionally the article clearly proves that
A) christianity, and very clearly a monotheistic god, predates constantine
B) the christians before that time previously practised against the permissions of the formal authority. It seems the opposite of your original point is true. Pre-constantine roman law seeked to conrtol it's people from christianity.

[ex]

Bah, I had the original article saved before I restored last month.  Gimme a minute, I'll find it.

[Arm0r]

Bah, I had the original article saved before I restored last month.  Gimme a week or so, I'll find it.

fixed.