Official Tourney Map Update Thread

[haunted]

Greetings TDM players and all.

This is the Official Tourney Map Update Thread; I took the liberty in creating this Official thread, and I hope no one has any problems with it. Please post/debate/discuss any possible changes to the tourney maps that could benefit for over-all enjoyment or balance. It's ok if the discussion gets a little heated, no one's posts are getting deleted in this thread. I made this thread in hope to facilitate proper, positive discussion about TDM/duel maps. As someone who truly cares about the tourney servers(only active admin, main tournament organizer, etc.), I couldn't help but make this Official Thread to better steer us in the right direction. Also, we don't want to clog up the main section of the forum with a bunch of ridiculous threads.

Note: Any other thread claiming to be the Official Thread is an imitation. This is the real deal, this is the place where one discusses possible map changes on the tourney servers. This is not a troll thread, as an admin of the tourney servers I felt compelled to make this to facilitate proper discussion about map updates(I will see to it that the discussion remains legit for ALL players). I made this thread for the sake of those who truly feel it's necessary, so they can bounce ideas off others to see how well these updates will affect tdm/duel, how they'll be embraced, and how much people will like them. An "Official Tourney Maps Thread" should indeed reflect the thoughts of the tdm community, and not just 1%. Anyway, lets get the discussion going.

List of topics:

-Spawning RG on q2rdm2.. would this map be better without the RG spawn?
-BFG used on ztn2dm2 in duel or no?
-Quad/invuln. on q2dm3.. doable in 2v2 when both are enabled.....but......(This topic is loosely defined.. compare/contrast Both quad/invuln. being used in 2v2, just quad, just invuln., or none[keep in mind options 'just quad' and 'none' have a railgun where invuln. is..unless you prefer different])

[Whirlingdervish]

viva la 99%


another fun discussion we could have in here: KM - BFG or no in duel?

[haunted]

I updated the OP with a list of topics to discuss, feel free to suggest more.

[Whirlingdervish]

I have limitted experience with dm3 in teams, but I can attest to the huge difference that the powerups make in the way the map plays. I'm also one that thinks a map with quad needs invul or some sort of other very advantageous item to offset it's power.

From a duel perspective dm3 can be a very slow paced map with both players making very deliberate and highly defensive moves most of the time. Oddly, key points in dm3 duels seem to revolve more around those few times when Mega or YA draw one or both into comitting to dangerous courses of action, than the peekaboo rails or spam rockets that knock someone down in terms of health/armor to the point that they have to flee or be killed very quickly.

To me it seems that once you add the invul/quad and teams the play gets a lot faster, spam matters a lot less (unless its hitting the quad runner) and suddenly item control of those two becomes incredibly important and just making sure you are holding the YA doesn't help anywhere near the way it does in duel.

Armor is rendered almost useless except to save you from a single rail-hit death, and the items to control take over the greater importance. I like these effects but, due to my own movement failings and the large amount of controlled jumps over lava they make dm3 a very unforgiving map.

just some thoughts..

[haunted]

This isn't a thread to badmouth JaQuIO. Please refrain from doing so(on this thread)

serious suggestions

1. Its probably not played much in TDM, but more health packs, and more rocket ammo on q2dm7

I'll give my own input on all of what's mentioned later.. At a glance at derv's post, I would agree with inuln. offsetting quad damage's power _IF_ it didn't take 5 minutes to respawn in comparison to quad every 60 seconds... but it does ;>

I may even be in favor of quad + RG instead of invuln, for 2v2... not quite sure.

[Barton]

I see a lot of players including myself play dm3 in 2v2 with quad and invul on. Invul is cheeky and seems a bit too much in 2v2 but okay in 4v4, so I'd probably like to see it not used in 2v2. Quad in 2v2 on dm3 I could play with or without, but it seems more fun with it. If I could have it my way though, I'd like quad to spawn every 2 minutes in 2v2 and not 4v4.

[VaeVictis]

with or without bfg on ztn2dm2 doesnt really make much of a difference honestly... just need to play slightly more defensive if its up, but its very easy to avoid damage from it

prefer without it, but im not against it if its forgotten to be voted out

[reaper]

From a duel perspective dm3 can be a very slow paced map with both players making very deliberate and highly defensive moves most of the time. Oddly, key points in dm3 duels seem to revolve more around those few times when Mega or YA draw one or both into comitting to dangerous courses of action, than the peekaboo rails or spam rockets that knock someone down in terms of health/armor to the point that they have to flee or be killed very quickly.

dm3 is different than most of the commonly played maps because you can just stay in one spot and the other person has to take some risks to attack you.  you really could just sit at rl like you can sit at upper rl on q2dm1, you could also just hang out up top by rail to I guess.  I think it's a really fun map for teams, rl is really nice to have, but so is the railgun area and distributing rails so it makes for good battles.  it seems people either love it or hate it.  it has cool angles and it's slow so I like it.  it can also be easier to play stronger players there.

q2dm2 4vs4 is also the most fun because of quad I think.

[haunted]

Long distance BFG is easy to dodge..... to say that BFG is easy to dodge, you are saying that it is easy to avoid EVER getting close to someone, which if you want to run all day then yes, BFG can be indefinitely dodged. but, BFG can be a little more problematic than you think, aiming down works well with it.

[VaeVictis]

Long distance BFG is easy to dodge..... to say that BFG is easy to dodge, you are saying that it is easy to avoid EVER getting close to someone, which if you want to run all day then yes, BFG can be indefinitely dodged. but, BFG can be a little more problematic than you think, aiming down works well with it.

as i said, just have to play defensively, the fire time is quite high as well and you can hear when its charging up for a shot, so that helps with the ability to duck around a corner if some idiot is shooting the ground not to mention, bfg does deal extra self damage so shooting the ground isnt the best think to spam in 1v1

you just have to know the different ways which bfg deals damage, the splash and direct damage are ofc easy to avoid because of the slow projectile, but the damage cone from when the projectile explodes is the most commonly over looked by lower tier players but its the most effective way to get some easy damage in... on ztn2dm2 the cone is pretty useless just because the amount of corners you can duck around when you hear that charge up

im not saying the bfg would be entirely useless, but its effectiveness on a map with so many corners is severely over played by some people

[Whirlingdervish]

On KM with BFG I tend to grab it and immediately switch to another gun to wait for good moments to use it and surprise someone who's trapped.

It can be fairly potent if you are up by ssg or gl and you hear someone drop for the HB/RA. Preaim, hold fire and round the corner up top aiming down right by HB/cells. It works pretty well to drop in by the RL and shoot it straight into the RA nook the second you hear them going for it. Depending on the result you can either go back up the stairs to bfg/YA, or go in and pick up their gun from among the gibs.

[haunted]

BFG can catch anyone with their pants down. I don't think you quite understand "the ways BFG deals damage", because I am thinking exactly on these same lines in terms of inflicting damage against an opponent. Why on earth would any good player waste a BFG blast on you if they know you can escape(just as you're saying)? You have to assume that your opponent WON'T do this, if you're going to also assume that someone will just run away from BFG indefinitely... and they contradict each other too, so you ain't getting the bigger picture here, imo. Top players are going to use it when the opportunity presents itself--and yes, the opportunities do come along. You really need to look at this game more by the situation or circumstance, opposed to an opinion like "that doesn't matter because I'll have whatever weapon to defend myself, and I'll just be able to run away."

Not to mention, even if you DO play a game in which you are 100% of the time always in a position to run away from BFG...... playing so defensively to the extent that you can always flee from a BFG blast would change the strategy of this map a little, so your main point "that it would make no difference" actually contradicts your point for "why it would make no difference" a little.

Of course it's not entirely useless, and YES it's effective on this map.. I mean, look at you; It's already been effective enough inasmuch for you to, in essence say you'll never commit against someone with BFG... Main point here; it's not the best weapon on the map, but it's presence v. not does makes a difference.

[Whirlingdervish]

in keeping with what haunted is saying above, at the very least BFG is a great way to make someone in a duel hold back long enough that you can run in and swipe the RA or Mega and get a crucial second or so during which you can flee with your prize and not take much damage.

if you're up by cg or something and the opponent lets fly a bfg blast up that way, you'll prolly step back into the shard hall to avoid getting splashed.. bc the blast is slow moving you may have to hold position for a second or two until it hits. At that point you better have gl and spam it very effectively down towards RA to deny it, because nothing else works very well when you're behind cover like that and they can quickly retreat toward RL after the grab.

BFG is definitely not a finesse weapon, but the fear of getting hit hard with it can be.

[haunted]

in keeping with what haunted is saying above, at the very least BFG is a great way to make someone in a duel hold back long enough that you can run in and swipe the RA or Mega and get a crucial second or so during which you can flee with your prize and not take much damage.

if you're up by cg or something and the opponent lets fly a bfg blast up that way, you'll prolly step back into the shard hall to avoid getting splashed.. bc the blast is slow moving you may have to hold position for a second or two until it hits. At that point you better have gl and spam it very effectively down towards RA to deny it, because nothing else works very well when you're behind cover like that and they can quickly retreat toward RL after the grab.

BFG is definitely not a finesse weapon, but the fear of getting hit hard with it can be.

^Yes

I was omitting it's use for diversionary purposes in my last post. At one point I thought to mention that when I said "Why on earth would any good player waste a BFG blast on you if they know you can escape(just as you're saying)?" being that diversionary tactics would certainly be an answer to it.

[VaeVictis]

really no matter how ya look at it though, bfg doesnt ruin the map like some players complain about so i see no issue playing with bfg just have to play a little different

might even make the map more balanced by giving the player out of control something they can use for suppressive spam rather than just chain/rail