KroPP complaining about the No FPS Switching policy on the PB2 Q2jumpmod server

[Luum]

The server in question is running through a Paintball2 client and is primarily made for the PB2 community to use. It's a little over 4 months old now. I've been trying to keep that server as free from FPS switching as humanly possible, but it's become an issue now that the Q2 community has started finding out about our server. For example, KroPP just can't live with the fact and his stubborness convinced the server owner that we need more opinions on the matter, so I'm required to get this sorted out with the Q2 community.

The unwritten rules right now are as follows:

1. No FPS switching, especially not between 1-60. Choose some value that's 60 or above and stick with it. (I should probably increase the limit to 100..)
2. All people aware of the fact that FPS switching is advantageus, can FPS switch, and has heard that it isn't allowed on the server have to make their FPS show up on replays, if they don't, their times will be deleted.

The question is: Should I have to bend over and allow FPS switching so that the Q2 community wouldn't have to change their playstyle and instead make the PB2 community change theirs to meet yours?

[peewee_RotA]

The server in question is running through a Paintball2 client and is primarily made for the PB2 community to use. It's a little over 4 months old now. I've been trying to keep that server as free from FPS switching as humanly possible, but it's become an issue now that the Q2 community has started finding out about our server. For example, KroPP just can't live with the fact and his stubborness convinced the server owner that we need more opinions on the matter, so I'm required to get this sorted out with the Q2 community.

The unwritten rules right now are as follows:

1. No FPS switching, especially not between 1-60. Choose some value that's 60 or above and stick with it. (I should probably increase the limit to 100..)
2. All people aware of the fact that FPS switching is advantageus, can FPS switch, and has heard that it isn't allowed on the server have to make their FPS show up on replays, if they don't, their times will be deleted.

The question is: Should I have to bend over and allow FPS switching so that the Q2 community wouldn't have to change their playstyle and instead make the PB2 community change theirs to meet yours?

I agree that FPS switching is retarded. The kind of jumps you do from 120fps are not movement enhancments like circle jumping. They are bugs that need squashed.


However, nobody here will agree with me. "Spiderman" box jumps are a regular part of jump server. Also switching FPS is the only way for lagged players to do a reliable ladder jump. You'll find that it's use in actual play is pretty limited, ladders are generally not near any useful jumps and box jumps require being in the lower quadrants. There are probably 2 duel maps where it's useful, however it's use is insanely unfair to players who don't have this config set up because it leads to the most important items.

You'll probably get a wave of "That's the way the game is, don't try to change it" responses after mine. I do want to reiterate that I think box jumps are stupid and should just be fixed in r1q2 server executable so that it no longer works.

[|iR|Focalor]

Lemme get this straight, you got drama going on in YOUR community (NOT QUAKE2)... so you bring it here? Wow, how generous of you.

[peewee_RotA]

Lemme get this straight, you got drama going on in YOUR community (NOT QUAKE2)... so you bring it here? Wow, how generous of you.

It is a quake 2 mod. I wasn't going to mention that the distinction is strictly cosmetic. DDAY, AQ2, CTF, and Gloom try to make the same argument. Unless you drastically alter the client, instead of repackage it, it's still the same game. Probably the best way to do so is alter the physics (which could solve the problem to begin with)

[|iR|Focalor]

Still a different community. If you see a problem in YOUR community, on YOUR servers, it's usually best for YOU to handle it.

[Barton]

Crate jumps are one of the most distinguishable attributes of Q2. You get rid of that, then you stand to lose a huge part of the identity of what Quake 2 movement is, and the element of fun that one can get from all the different of ways that players can traverse jump maps in Q2. By limiting what FPS people can use, you'd just end making the gameplay more dull, because you reduce the variety of jumps are possible. The bottom line is, I'd say, PB2 jump mod shouldn't even exist. The existence of such a mod sounds extremely pointless when Q2 jump mod already exists with many servers, and its gameplay is excellent.

[Luum]

Thanks!

I ended up being a little unclear about some stuff. The physics in PB2 do not change at all between 100-999 fps, probably even lower but I'm not sure where the limit is. So there have been some changes in the game to limit the use of FPS switching. I talked with the developer once and he mentioned something about working on things that might make using lower FPS unnecessary, so the game is heading away from such techniques making FPS switching quite a useless skill to learn for PB2 players in the long run (in my opinion).

Crate jumps are one of the most distinguishable attributes of Q2. You get rid of that, then you stand to lose a huge part of the identity of what Quake 2 movement is, and the element of fun that one can get from all the different of ways that players can traverse jump maps in Q2. By limiting what FPS people can use, you'd just end making the gameplay more dull, because you reduce the variety of jumps are possible. The bottom line is, I'd say, PB2 jump mod shouldn't even exist. The existence of such a mod sounds extremely pointless when Q2 jump mod already exists with many servers, and its gameplay is excellent.

What are "crate jumps" exactly? There aren't that many maps that can't be completed with normal FPS, and the few that can't are sometimes fixable by simply adding boxes to them.

Still a different community. If you see a problem in YOUR community, on YOUR servers, it's usually best for YOU to handle it.

Yes, it should be decided by us in our community, but like I said. Kropp is stubborn and if his opinion represents the majority's opinion in here, it means that I'm going against what the server owner wants and that we should allow FPS switching to reach a better outcome, ie. more satisfied players (and more players). Our community doesn't really mind because they don't know much about the whole idea. Some of them have heard that having a lower fps for ladders is good, but that's the extent of their knowledge on the subject.I also don't think that most of them would like seeing, for example, 20fps starts on shorter maps because it would unneedlessly force them to play differently to be able to compete. It ends up with much less hassle to just agree that nobody does stuff like that. I know that they'd like to be able to FPS switch on ladders for example because it's less annoying than failing on one a 100 times, but then we'd need to draw a rather gray line that's hard to control. If people are allowed to FPS switch for some things, some of them will become hungry to switch FPS in unacceptable ways just to get that 1st place off of someone, taking us back to 20fps starts etc.. It would be much easier and less nerve racking to just say no to everything. (btw, I intend to fix all the buggy ladders, so they aren't going to be a problem)

My opinion on this is quite clear, but I do not own the server and my thoughts weren't enough to convince the server owner, so I need more opinions on the matter. Do you guys agree with KroPP that our server would be better off if it allowed FPS switching? And is it unnacceptable for a PB2 server to alter the Q2jump ruleset like this?

[|iR|Focalor]

Well the point I'm trying to convey is that it's YOUR server. You guys should probably ask the people who play THERE what to do rather asking people around here. Most of the people who play here probably don't play there, so why should anyone's opinion around here sway what happens somewhere else? That's like taking a vote in Canada as to who the next president of the United States should be. Sure, the decision might affect Canada in some roundabout diminished way, but it affects the U.S. more.

I mean... if you just want some extra opinions on the topic, then whatever.

My personal opinion would be to figure out if all people would have the same opportunity to take advantage of FPS switching at the same level of effectiveness. If so, then sure, why not allow it. Just make sure everyone knows that EVERYONE has the ability to do it so that no one can claim someone else has any unfair advantage.

[haunted]

uhhh................ wait a sec here.

Please tell me in detail the advantages that they are receiving/abusing from the fps changes.

[Barton]

I'm not sure what exactly PB2 jump is like, but you need fps changes for double jumping and moving around the map in Q2 jump mod. I don't see how changing FPS gives an advantage, when anyone can do it. If a player doesn't get first place on some map because he didn't use FPS change, then it's his own fault.

[haunted]

Yeah, and it was a VERY rare occasion that I had to change my fps to do a ladder or something in jumpmod.... 90%+ of ladder jumps can be done with 60 fps first try if you do it right. So I really would like to here his explanation about how it gives an unfair advantage... Seems just like a drop in the bucket to me.

[Blitzed]

Whats the i.p to this server?

[Luum]

Yeah, and it was a VERY rare occasion that I had to change my fps to do a ladder or something in jumpmod.... 90%+ of ladder jumps can be done with 60 fps first try if you do it right. So I really would like to here his explanation about how it gives an unfair advantage... Seems just like a drop in the bucket to me.

I can easily beat my times if I were to start changing FPS all of a sudden.

__________________________________________________________

This is the decision I'm faced with.

1. Force everyone to use FPS that's over 80.
If this succeeded, it would preserve the gameplay of PB2.

2. Let Q2 players do whatever they want.
This would kill off the present PB2 style of play on the server.

There wouldn't be a problem if Q2 players weren't able to connect to the server, but since they are we need to decide what's best. Do you guys think that changing FPS to do jumps is a good feature to add in PB2, even though PB2 is currently going in the opposite direction? If it isn't, should we still allow it just because you guys are able to connect to the server?

[haunted]

Can you please tell me why it is unfair?? I am very familiar with the physics with quake2's engine.. jumps, speed, or whatever. I will be able to understand what you're saying.

All you're saying is "People do better with fps changes."

[Barton]

Whats the i.p to this server?

  cuz I still don't understand why PB2 needs a jump server.