religion - coping mechanism. we need to grow up.

[Kami]

religion has derived from our need to understand, and yea long ago we reached a big stumble when we started inventing not deities, but unquestionable deities.  and as painful as it is, i agree with carl sagan that we must break away from the unquestionable so that we can begin to understand the universe around us and our effects on said universe, whether its as miniscule as our own home town or our planet.  at this stage of human growth, it might as well be our universe.  for now.

where carl sagan and i differ is that carl sagan writes much about his wishes of religion and science to co-exist.  but having read everything i can about him, i have to wonder that he wrote about such things not of his own accord but to ensure that he not alienate possibly his biggest audience at the times he wrote them:  late 20th century North Americans.

i submit that science must not co-exist with a religion of the unquestionable.  that if you'd like to believe in your own salvation, may it have nothing to do with explaining (and this, either inhibiting or confusing) a new breakthrough (such as stem cells).

in the same way, i have to wonder if religion then becomes a big mechanism for social evolution.  can we pass it or be doomed to stagnation because of the unquestionable?  can we achieve a population who refuse to accept something as unquestionable when such ideology exists?  i really hope so.  i feel likeminded with sagan's, and many others' such as einstein's belief in the (and excuse me if i don't know the proper term for it)  Physicist's God.  the idea that god is in the elegance of the configuration of our universe.  also written about is the idea that there is always something to discover to satiate the human palette of discovery.

you people may continue to have your own personal salvations and afterlives.  you can have your God, your Jesus, Satan, your Allah, Yahweh, Thor, Zeus.  whatever pleases you.  but so long as it infringes on human development, you infringe not only on the idea that a scientific breakthrough is being halted, you infringe on every single person on the planet's room for growth.  you are saying that we are not allowed to do things that are beneficial for ourselves because of a non-existent plea bargain with an ancient deity your forefathers dreamt up a long ass time ago.  i am not bound by that agreement, nor is anyone not of your own religion. 

so i end the thread on this note:

religion:  please stop telling me what to do, and i'll stop trying to enlighten you with reality.

social evolution will dictate who's right anyways.  atleast i hope for the sake of our species.

[[2c.Nebulous]]

As is an option on facebook....

[2c.Nebulous] likes this. 

[Arm0r]

Oh, I was so torn before I read this thread.  Thanks for solving a question humanity has been arguing over since the begining.   I look forward to you citing your ultimate proof of zero creator though, ready to read it when you post it.

[quadz]

Oh, I was so torn before I read this thread.  Thanks for solving a question humanity has been arguing over since the begining.   I look forward to you citing your ultimate proof of zero creator though, ready to read it when you post it.

On the other hand, I hope we can agree there's quite a gap between believing there may be a creative intelligence behind the origin of a universe, and believing the creator of said universe wants you killed for picking up sticks on Saturday.

Numbers 15:32-36

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." 36 So, as the LORD commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

[Whirlingdervish]

sticks and stones will br... wait a fucking second! ow! motherfuckers those rocks hurt! oww!

[deft]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIaORknS1Dk

[|iR|Focalor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sijN4Lt5c10

[Arm0r]

Oh, I was so torn before I read this thread.  Thanks for solving a question humanity has been arguing over since the begining.   I look forward to you citing your ultimate proof of zero creator though, ready to read it when you post it.

On the other hand, I hope we can agree there's quite a gap between believing there may be a creative intelligence behind the origin of a universe, and believing the creator of said universe wants you killed for picking up sticks on Saturday.

Numbers 15:32-36

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." 36 So, as the LORD commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

I didn't say anything about god.

[|iR|Focalor]

Oh, I was so torn before I read this thread.  Thanks for solving a question humanity has been arguing over since the begining.   I look forward to you citing your ultimate proof of zero creator though, ready to read it when you post it.

On the other hand, I hope we can agree there's quite a gap between believing there may be a creative intelligence behind the origin of a universe, and believing the creator of said universe wants you killed for picking up sticks on Saturday.

Numbers 15:32-36

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." 36 So, as the LORD commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

I didn't say anything about god.

So you're saying God is not the creator?

[quadz]

I didn't say anything about god.

I thought you were saying there's no proof of an absence of a creator, and I would imagine everyone is likely to agree.

Beyond that, I was hoping there might also be agreement that even if one does postulate the existence of a supernatural prime mover, there's no direct route from that stance to the belief that the creator of the universe takes a special interest in virgin brides and ritual genital mutilation.

In other words--and again this isn't directed at you but more at the thread topic--it seems to be a frequent occurence for people to say: i believe the universe must have had a creator, therefore the bible is the word of god.

My point being, it would be great to find more widespread agreement that there's no logical connection between these two statements.


Regards,

[QuakeDuke]

In other words--and again this isn't directed at you but more at the thread topic--it seems to be a frequent occurence for people to say: i believe the universe must have had a creator, therefore the bible is the word of god.

My point being, it would be great to find more widespread agreement that there's no logical connection between these two statements.

Regards,

Will it get me in too much trouble if I agree? I hesitate not wanting to cause a ruckus....

QD

[Arm0r]

I believe if there is a creator he/she/it doesn't have too much stock in us, the universe itself would be something more grand to take ownership of as a creator than any human would be.   I know it'll always be this way but I just don't generally like the idea of grouping the idea of a creator and the idea of god together, a creator would not gurantee some strange after life filled with eternal damnation or joy that all rides on how you act while alive.  If you honestly think about it, were pretty much just microscopic fungus on some pebble in the middle of the universe so to me a creator would not even have to had intentionally "created" us for us to come about, life itself could just be a chemical side effect of the way things react to eachother.

Kind of scatter brained atm so forgive me if that isn't 100% understandable...the way I read it, it is so let me know if you think otherwise.

[Whirlingdervish]

you'd think if God wanted our dicks mushroom shaped, we'd be born with 'em that way..

 

[Arm0r]

you'd think if God wanted our dicks mushroom shaped, we'd be born with 'em that way..

 

  My wife was just talking about this the other day with one of her girlfriends.  It's a real strange practice but I gotta admit, I got snipped.  Parents had it done shortly after birth but for no religious reason.  Supposedly cleaner.   Wow this conversation took a left turn hahaha

 

[Whirlingdervish]

I'm also of the opinion that if an all-powerful Creator/God loved us he'd make all women's g-spot like the size of a grapefruit and deeper in so you dont have to work some crazy angle to make her happy.