Everyone in coding forums talk about cleancode.... welll I have something to say

[Ace]

Im actually successfully doing it my way, 50% of the old monster code is gone and removed permanently, and I removed BFG and Railgun successfully without errors.... so far so good!  What I am doing is removing 1 thing at a time, to be sure I don;t eff things up.... nad I am backing up the the "CLEANED" code as I go.... so far its been a success!

Quote from Quadz

Newblet, id Software is one of the only game companies to release the source to their AAA titles, for the community to learn from and customize.

A: I am not a Newbie
B: I know that.... this is why I said what I said earlier "samples"  but what ever

and C:  No disrespect, its just seems like no one reads what I say or understands me well.... or maybe I ask or approach my speaking ina manner no one understands, either way....  you of all people should know what I ment by all that said about the Code

Regards,
Ace

[Ace]

maybe you can take a look at some existing mod source code and try to reproduce what you need one step at a time?

  LOL I am doing that but in reverse... with the EGL code, but deleting irrelavant stuff to my game.... 1 step at a time... btw I like you, your freaking cool, and take no shit, and give good advice....

[[BTF]Jehar]

Quadz, *are* there any examples of "low-coupled, modular programming" d3d/ogl engines from the mid 90's?

[quadz]

I am backing up the the "CLEANED" code as I go.... so far its been a success!

I'm glad for your success.

Are you familiar with revision control systems?  (E.g. svn, git, bzr, hg...?)

Newblet, id Software is one of the only game companies to release the source to their AAA titles, for the community to learn from and customize.

A: I am not a Newbie
B: I know that.... this is why I said what I said earlier "samples"  but what ever
and C:  No disrespect, its just seems like no one reads what I say or understands me well.... or maybe I ask or approach my speaking ina manner no one understands, either way....  you of all people should know what I ment by all that said about the Code

A: I'm only judging your skill level by the statements you're making here.  There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.

C: You wrote: "If he was going to release the GPL, at least eh should of cleaned it first, and got rid of all other junk that devs would care less for in the program... [...] but nooooo.... he wanted to keep the code there, and said here, you deal with it, I am too lazy to clean if first!"

I don't think I've 'misunderstood' you.  You seem to be either completely clueless about the generous nature of Carmack's gift: that he released the source to us at all; or you're suffering from a misplaced sense of entitlement.

[quadz]

Quadz, *are* there any examples of "low-coupled, modular programming" d3d/ogl engines from the mid 90's?

Hard to know, since most were closed source?

 

[Ace]

I am backing up the the "CLEANED" code as I go.... so far its been a success!

I'm glad for your success.

Are you familiar with revision control systems?  (E.g. svn, git, bzr, hg...?)

Newblet, id Software is one of the only game companies to release the source to their AAA titles, for the community to learn from and customize.

A: I am not a Newbie
B: I know that.... this is why I said what I said earlier "samples"  but what ever
and C:  No disrespect, its just seems like no one reads what I say or understands me well.... or maybe I ask or approach my speaking ina manner no one understands, either way....  you of all people should know what I ment by all that said about the Code

A: I'm only judging your skill level by the statements you're making here.  There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.

C: You wrote: "If he was going to release the GPL, at least eh should of cleaned it first, and got rid of all other junk that devs would care less for in the program... [...] but nooooo.... he wanted to keep the code there, and said here, you deal with it, I am too lazy to clean if first!"

I don't think I've 'misunderstood' you.  You seem to be either completely clueless about the generous nature of Carmack's gift: that he released the source to us at all; or you're suffering from a misplaced sense of entitlement.

But, if you did not read AFTER that, you would see I had said

I am more upset about the solution than the code to be honest, the code is fine in alot of aspects, when I say "CLEAN CODE" I mean a "CLEAN SOLUTION" for us programmers to work with, and not have to remove them ourself, I rather be adding on, than removing when building up the solution!

and even before that I said he should of included "samples" for learning..... scroll up and re-read....  or do I have to delete the line compleatly just to satisify you, and make sure you clearly understood whart I ment, becuase apparently when I type my messages I don;t state fully what I mean... 

[quadz]

But, if you did not read AFTER that, you would see I had said

I am more upset about the solution than the code to be honest, the code is fine in alot of aspects, when I say "CLEAN CODE" I mean a "CLEAN SOLUTION" for us programmers to work with, and not have to remove them ourself, I rather be adding on, than removing when building up the solution!

and even before that I said he should of included "samples" for learning.....

Again, on what do you base this sense of entitlement about what Carmack "should have" provided for us?





P.S. Are you familiar with revision control systems?  (E.g. svn, git, bzr, hg...?)

[Ace]

I was just meaning he should of made it simpler, by removing the elements people might not want from the source in the "SOLUTION" is all while still keeping the original h's and c's there for people to impliment if needed, sure I am greatfull he released it, but it gives me alot of headaches, and revisisions.... not sure what you mean by that?  I am sure you are refering to the code in the engine, I seen svn, but the others???

[Ace]

I was looking at win_main.c and was wondering if I could combine cgame and game without errors?

static libList_t sys_libList[LIB_MAX] = {
   { "LIB_CGAME",   NULL,   "bandcgame" LIBARCH ".dll",   "GetCGameAPI"   },
   { "LIB_GAME",   NULL,   "game" LIBARCH ".dll",      "GetGameAPI"   },
};

would be less compiling I think, and less complex?

[quadz]

revisisions.... not sure what you mean by that?  I am sure you are refering to the code in the engine, I seen svn, but the others???

Basically, a revision control system handles this sort of thing for you: 'I am backing up the the "CLEANED" code as I go'.

Any time you make a bit of progress while developing, you can commit your source code changes to the revision control system.  Then, at any time, you can ask it to show you the history of changes you've made to the source code, and you can ask it to retrieve older versions of any file, how the source code looked at an earlier point in the project.

It is somewhat akin to having a time machine for your source code.

You'd be doing yourself a favor to put your project under revision control ASAP.

There are several revision control systems avaiable - svn, git, bzr, hg, etc.

Although I've not personally used Bazaar (bzr), I've heard it has a reputation for being easy to learn:

http://bazaar.canonical.com/en/
http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/explorer/en/visual-tour-windows.html


Regards,

quadz

[Ace]

Oh I just Rare pack the code and give them versions....  I duno about that stuff...  sounds like a good idea, but I am too lazy to worry with it.  I have like 3 ro 4 backup's 1 is the original, another is the one discoloda gave me... but enough about him :/ and then the others..... the most recent I have is the cleanest yet, just incompleate, and needs more content, but thats the leveling system and mouse control over-rides that has to be implimented....  my friend and fellow coder, has stepped down, and now I am in lead since I am doing this alot faster, but he is still going to help out when he can, he rather do teh modeling.    Anyways, like I said I rather not bother with it even if benificial, thanks Quadz thought for your insight...  and suggestions.  But its hard to re-write- or alter the control systems, I have to remove the pitch, yall, roll, bob, elements since this is not going to be 1st person view but third person view, and top view like Diablo...  so this may be harder to do than I anticipated, but with cgame, its proving helpfull with re-writing the menu and mouse movements.

[quadz]

I was looking at win_main.c and was wondering if I could combine cgame and game without errors?

static libList_t sys_libList[LIB_MAX] = {
   { "LIB_CGAME",   NULL,   "bandcgame" LIBARCH ".dll",   "GetCGameAPI"   },
   { "LIB_GAME",   NULL,   "game" LIBARCH ".dll",      "GetGameAPI"   },
};

I don't know what GetCGameAPI is, as it's not standard Q2.  I presume it was added by the developer(s) of EGL.

[Ace]

yes it was added, its a new element that adds functions such as new menu. mouse, and other functions, and graphics elements that makes the game better.... but I am disappointed with its shadows and not sure how to do the shaders like Serious Sam detail textures...  I could of sworn egl supported this feature....

[QwazyWabbit]

I was just meaning he should of made it simpler, by removing the elements people might not want from the source in the "SOLUTION" is all while still keeping the original h's and c's there for people to impliment if needed, sure I am greatfull he released it, but it gives me alot of headaches, and revisisions.... not sure what you mean by that?  I am sure you are refering to the code in the engine, I seen svn, but the others???

There were two releases of the game code. The first release was the DLL (gamex86.dll) sources. They were GPL and the modders were able to create offshoot mods of the DM games with id's permission as released. A gift to the user and modder community. You also have to understand that the engine and game DLLs were written by a very small team under pressure to release the original game so there were a lot of bugs to squash and a few "bad habits" crept into the code.

Once the game aged and the profits to Id declined the rate of return on the game was such that keeping it private was not an issue. They were abandoning the engine after Quake 3 and completely re-writing it for Quake 4. They then worked (mostly Zoid worked) on cleaning up the worst hacks for the Linux ports (because the time pressures to release the game for live server use) was such that the code was rather messy and probably embarrassing to disclose. Once the code was clean enough for public disclosure they released the entire engine and development kit to the community under the GPL. This was the 3.21 release and the last supported release from id.

ALL the Q2 mods, mapping, modeling, and a large codebase of 3D tools you are using today owe their origins to the nucleus that was idSoftware's Quake 2 code. The code is the exact code that makes Quake 2 the game that it is. They left nothing out and put nothing in, they said, here it is, learn from it, modify it, do what you like with it, but we reserve the artwork and content, that's all. Oh, BTW, if you do make a game from this code, you must publish the source and give idSoftware credit for the code that you use.

As a newb, you wouldn't know this history so you should keep your criticism of the code and the authors to yourself before you offend more people. The code was a great gift to the user community and spawned a great following of loyal Quake players. This is why the game will not die.

[Ace]

A I am not a newb, and

B:

Oh, BTW, if you do make a game from this code, you must publish the source and give idSoftware credit for the code that you use.

I do not have to becuase I am buying it from them....  but of course they will get credit since it is the Q2 engine...


BTW are you related to Discoloda?  Becuase I hate him with a passion for what he did, quit on me, to goto the EGL team... if it was not for him, BAND would of already been made and not 7 years over due!

Ironicly I am using the EGL port of the Q2 Engine though... :/