What sorts of maps do we require?

[VaeVictis]

Haven't mapped for Quake 2 in ages. I'm sorry for being picky, but I require GTKRadiant 1.4.0. None of that 1.5.0 garbage. Does any one still have GTK1.4.0 for Quake II?

P.S. If you DO have the installer/working link to installer, download it and guard it with your life. QERadiant.com doesn't supply it anymore (their new TRAC website sucks). 

its probably on quakeunity along with every other version of gtkradiant

[[BTF] Reflex]

This one?  I may have to give it a try for my next map.



http://ftp.mancubus.net/pub/idstuff/qeradiant/GtkRadiant/GtkRadiant-1_4/Windows/

This one is 1.4.0 classic,  pulls up q2 maps great

[The Happy Friar]

What the big difference between 1.4.x & 1.5?

you can get all the old ones right from id themselves: ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/qeradiant/

[LedZep]

This one?  I may have to give it a try for my next map.



http://ftp.mancubus.net/pub/idstuff/qeradiant/GtkRadiant/GtkRadiant-1_4/Windows/

This one is 1.4.0 classic,  pulls up q2 maps great

That editor IS sexy. I'm just piss angry because the editor I used to make Q2 maps with (Qoole) is fucking up on this machine.

[peewee_RotA]

This one?  I may have to give it a try for my next map.



http://ftp.mancubus.net/pub/idstuff/qeradiant/GtkRadiant/GtkRadiant-1_4/Windows/

This one is 1.4.0 classic,  pulls up q2 maps great

That editor IS sexy. I'm just piss angry because the editor I used to make Q2 maps with (Qoole) is fucking up on this machine.

Horray for another qoole user 

Qoole 2.5 has a precision error, qoole v99 has an issue with saving angles for entities. The only way to use the tools anymore is to map in 2.5, load it in v99 to export to map, and then fix all the items in another editor (like quark) and use that editor for the final compile.


BTW,

There IS a brand new q2 mapping program out there...
http://leray.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=clanq2c&action=display&thread=2863&page=1

[[BTF] Reflex]

It's not done yet is it?

[LedZep]

Map almost done.
To be used on FFA / Railz (large rooms and long halls )

beta test pls: http://www.torontoclan.info/quake2/maps/zepdm1_beta.bsp LOOK AT PAGE 3, WHERE BETA 2 WAS POSTED SOMEWHERE

(dont use on any server, its a beta )

I was slow at doing this since I used hammer for HL1 for a while. GTK was a whole new world for me.

[[BTF] Reflex]

Simple and fun,  only complaint was the set of stairs.  Feels weird going up.

[LedZep]

Simple and fun,  only complaint was the set of stairs.  Feels weird going up.

ikr. i was thinking of making the stairs less steep. i should probably do that if im not the only one noticing it.

also, does it need more random boxes for trick jumping? any boxes in the outside room (with rl) perhaps?

[peewee_RotA]

Interesting. Very different. I really like the texturing of it. Sure they are a little bland but it's very classic and reminds me of quake1 maps.


My biggest concern is the long hallways. It's gonna be rail dominated. The easiest way to avoid this is to just remove the rail. some people pitch a fit on maps without rails, but it changes the dynamic of the fight, which is one of the strong points of quake 2.

You've got very good item and spawn placements. However, due to the tendency to turn right, I think that most players are going to end up crossing the slime bridge 5 or 6 times before wandering off to the rest of the map. Switching sides so that the slime bridge is on the other side would make a big difference.

You're right about adding more details like boxes. You could add some boxes in the hallway. Cleverly designed trim and pillars are great for breaking long hallways up. You can even do things like zig zagging. It's a common solution on many CTF maps with long hallways. It also helps to add functionality by rounding up the corners. It's a way to improve gameplay through movement without having to arbitrarily put more prefabs in the middle of a room. (Speaking of which. computers are great for arbitrary prefabs.)

My last concern is the position of the BFG. I'd either remove it or put it in the inv room and then move the in somewhere else.


Oh, and I Found your name   

[[BTF] Reflex]

remove the rail?  blasphemy.

[adz1La]

peewee just doesn't want to get owned by it... 

[VaeVictis]

some maps work great without rail.... the ztndm3q2 map doesnt have a rail, it plays very differently and a lot of people dont like it... but from playing it a few times i cant all out say its a BAD map, its just different

another fine example of a VERY good competition map is q2next1, its used for 4v4 tdm and it lacks a rail and from what i have seen it plays quite well

[peewee_RotA]

some maps work great without rail.... the ztndm3q2 map doesnt have a rail, it plays very differently and a lot of people dont like it... but from playing it a few times i cant all out say its a BAD map, its just different

another fine example of a VERY good competition map is q2next1, its used for 4v4 tdm and it lacks a rail and from what i have seen it plays quite well

Good points. My main motivation for my statement is that quake 2 is such an advanced and dynamic game that you can change the entire play of a map by excluding weapons. Most games have an extremely static list of weapons and regardless of what weapons are where, they always play the same. Quake 3/LIVE is the best example of this. All maps are flat, tall, and all fights are the same. Very RARELY does the exclusion of a rocket or railgun change play. Play in q3/live happens 1 of 2 ways. Either everyone grabs weapons in an attempt to get the plasma gun or rocket launcher, at which point play always happens the same over and over. Or, players immediately go for rocket/lighting, rail/plasma pairs and play doesn't change much.

Quake1/world is guilty of the same problem. In a given game, 70% of all kills are rocket, 20% are lighting, 5% grenades, and the rest are flukes. Excluding lightning gun or grenade launcher in any map goes unnoticed and excluding the rocket makes it pretty much unplayable.

Doom is ALWAYS a race for the SSG, and a few lucky BFG shots can win out. Plasma is also somewhat useful.

Quake 2, among other things, offers an end to this stagnation. That's why it's great. If you don't feel inclined to explore maps that take advantage of this, then you're missing out. And if you're adren, well then nobody cares what you think anyway. 

[VaeVictis]

some maps work great without rail.... the ztndm3q2 map doesnt have a rail, it plays very differently and a lot of people dont like it... but from playing it a few times i cant all out say its a BAD map, its just different

another fine example of a VERY good competition map is q2next1, its used for 4v4 tdm and it lacks a rail and from what i have seen it plays quite well

Good points. My main motivation for my statement is that quake 2 is such an advanced and dynamic game that you can change the entire play of a map by excluding weapons. Most games have an extremely static list of weapons and regardless of what weapons are where, they always play the same. Quake 3/LIVE is the best example of this. All maps are flat, tall, and all fights are the same. Very RARELY does the exclusion of a rocket or railgun change play. Play in q3/live happens 1 of 2 ways. Either everyone grabs weapons in an attempt to get the plasma gun or rocket launcher, at which point play always happens the same over and over. Or, players immediately go for rocket/lighting, rail/plasma pairs and play doesn't change much.

Quake1/world is guilty of the same problem. In a given game, 70% of all kills are rocket, 20% are lighting, 5% grenades, and the rest are flukes. Excluding lightning gun or grenade launcher in any map goes unnoticed and excluding the rocket makes it pretty much unplayable.

Doom is ALWAYS a race for the SSG, and a few lucky BFG shots can win out. Plasma is also somewhat useful.

Quake 2, among other things, offers an end to this stagnation. That's why it's great. If you don't feel inclined to explore maps that take advantage of this, then you're missing out. And if you're adren, well then nobody cares what you think anyway. 

lol quakelive/quake3 is actually quite balanced as far as weapons go... i just dont like that balance even the mg can kill you in very inappropriate situations some times...

but even with quakelive you get maps that exclude a weapon to promote a different style of play, such as tourney9 or dm13 neither include a rail and so they promote a different style of play as apposed to maps like t7 and t6...

and with quakeworld you get some maps like that too, dm2 doesnt have an lg and because of this it can play significantly different... and the balance in qw aint too bad, it focuses mostly on GL RL and LG but at least all 3 of those are nicely balanced

even with quake4 you have some good weapon balance with maps that remove a weapon for a different style... most players in q4 crutch rockets a LOT, but honestly if you watch some better players the balance is quite good... rail is very impressive as seen from players like av3k, and lg is WAY painful with good enough accuracy as seen from players like toxiq... but even then you get a map like phrantic thrown into the loop and that takes away rail which is a huge subtraction from quake4 play...

quake2 you just have a different sort of balance... everything rapes your face off as long as you can aim with it lol rockets do tons of damage, both hand nades and nade launcher do tons of damage, rail does tons of damage, ssg does tons of damage, both chain and hyper can kill you WAY fast with good accuracy...

main point here... subtracting weapons to make the game play significantly different is not something unique to quake2 all quakes have their own form of balance and each one has some maps that play off that balance to change the play style of the game