Author Topic: Gay Reichs  (Read 8549 times)

Offline quadz

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Gay Reichs
« on: July 29, 2010, 04:44:18 PM »
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-28-2010/gay-reichs

Scott Lively of Defend The Family explains how gays shouldn't serve openly in the military because "Hitler was a homosexual, and his inner circle was always filled with homosexuals. His bodyguards were homosexual, his chauffer was homosexual. The Nazis were not only gay, the Nazis met in a gay bar."

He goes on to explain that "the Nazis did persecute homosexuals to distract public attention away from their homosexuality."  And then offers the following clarification: "I am not gay."


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"He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."

Offline haunted

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2010, 05:36:58 PM »
'gays shouldn't serve openly in the military'

I assume you mean they shouldn't be open about their homosexuality while serving...... which you know, I think that's a good idea. I think that not being open about one's homosexuality, just because people may look at you different(no matter if they're right or wrong about that) is a good enough reason to do so no matter what argument one may have for advertising their sexuality(which many gays unfortunately go over the top with...). Sometimes when you're in something as important as the armed services you need to show a little professionalism and do something for the good of your team. You don't want someone 2nd guessing putting their ass on the line to save you because you were that weird gay guy. That's just an example that's easily understood though, there's a lot more circumstances that could arise to make it a good idea.

That being said, his reasoning [because "Hitler was a homosexual, and his inner circle was always filled with homosexuals. His bodyguards were homosexual, his chauffer was homosexual. The Nazis were not only gay, the Nazis met in a gay bar."] is totally bogus to me. A weird connection to not only make but draw a conclusion off it. I can't watch the video quite yet but do you have any comments, quadz, in regard to the legitimacy of the stuff he said about nazis?(how much is true, in your opinion)
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2010, 06:37:59 PM »
I saw that episode last night. That was a rather ridiculous statement, yes. But what I found to be even more ri-goddamn-diculous was how he claimed that homosexuals obviously lack the facility of self-control or self-restraint, which is what allowed the homosexual Nazi's to carry out such horrendous atrocities. He didn't explicitly state it, but one could easily arrive at the conclusion based on his words that "all homosexuals have the tendency to be sociopaths."

If that's true, then why don't the huge gay pride parades ever devolve into riots? Total irrational lunacy. It's nothing more than a personal philosophy based on unmerited prejudice... which is exactly what Nazism was.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2010, 06:56:48 PM »
'gays shouldn't serve openly in the military'

I assume you mean they shouldn't be open about their homosexuality while serving...... which you know, I think that's a good idea. I think that not being open about one's homosexuality, just because people may look at you different(no matter if they're right or wrong about that) is a good enough reason to do so no matter what argument one may have for advertising their sexuality(which many gays unfortunately go over the top with...). Sometimes when you're in something as important as the armed services you need to show a little professionalism and do something for the good of your team. You don't want someone 2nd guessing putting their ass on the line to save you because you were that weird gay guy. That's just an example that's easily understood though, there's a lot more circumstances that could arise to make it a good idea.

Haha, damn, you're gonna make me do research?  I figured Lively's claims were so asinine that people would just laugh.

Well, it seems the U.S. is far behind the curve at this point.  Apparently all of our allies except Islamist Turkey allow gays to serve openly:

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2010/0526/Don-t-ask-don-t-tell-How-do-other-countries-treat-gay-soldiers


The following list is from Wikipedia, however it seems to cross-check well enough with other sources.

Countries that disallow homosexuals from serving in the military:
(Omits many contries where homosexuality is entirely illegal for civilians as well.)

Cuba
China
Egypt
Greece
Iran
Jamaica
North Korea
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Serbia
Singapore
South Korea
Syria
Turkey
Venezuela
Yemen


Countries that allow homosexuals to serve openly in the military:

Albania
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Bermuda
Brazil
Canada
Colombia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
The Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Peru
Philippines
Romania
Russia
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
United Kingdom
Uruguay


Some relevant stats:

Quote
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2010/0526/Don-t-ask-don-t-tell-How-do-other-countries-treat-gay-soldiers

The Williams Institute at the University of California, Los Angeles, has estimated that some 66,000 gay and lesbian troops serve in the US forces today. And Britain, a key ally in Iraq and Afghanistan, has allowed homosexuals to openly serve in its military for a decade.

Canada and Australia lifted their bans in 1992, followed by Israel in 1993, and South Africa in 1998. The lift on bans did not result in a mass “coming out,” the Palm Center found, nor were there instances of increased harassment of or by gay people.

When Britain looked to repeal its ban, its military initially considered DADT. But they found it was a “disaster,” which “hadn’t worked,” was “unworkable” and was “hypocritical,” according to the Palm Center’s report, "Gays in Foreign Militaries 2010: A Global Primer."

Instead, the British military based its regulations on the Australian model, which simply ban public displays of affection, harassment and inappropriate relationships – regardless of whether the couple was gay or straight. In 2002, the British Ministry of Defense reconfirmed that “there has been no discernible impact on operational effectiveness” as a result of ending the gay ban and that “no further review of the Armed Forces policy on homosexuality” was necessary.

Seems to me the Brits are taking a sensible approach.  Make the rules apply equally to each gender and orientation.


I can't watch the video quite yet but do you have any comments, quadz, in regard to the legitimacy of the stuff he said about nazis?(how much is true, in your opinion)

The historian interviewed in the video stated there's no evidence to support Lively's claims that Hitler was homosexual, or even bisexual.

Further research indicates there were a few known Nazi homosexuals, such as co-founder and commander of the Sturmabteilung Ernst Röhm, and his deputy Edmund Heines.  Both were executed on Hitler's orders during the Night of the Long Knives in 1934. According to Wikipedia: Hitler identified Heines as one of the principal members of a "small group of elements which were held together through a like disposition" in his Reichstag speech of 13 July 1934.


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Offline haunted

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2010, 07:11:55 PM »
lol well that's how I felt about it too. Sorry you had to look some stuff up. :heart: Was just making sure that was your intent opposed to a possible alternate direction one could take by posting this, being that I hadn't seen the video yet :)

I gotcha though, the last part of your post was what I was thinking/requesting from you by saying that. Interesting he executed them / used them as an example when delivering a speech.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2010, 07:15:15 PM »
One commenter's astute observation on Rev. Lively's language in the video:

Quote
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/07/more_savage_than_natural_men.php#comment-2690827

Oh, the good reverend is quite clearly a closeted homosexual.

First, notice that he said that openly homosexual men are different from "natural" men. Clearly, being closeted isn't quite as bad. It's all about repressing the urges.

This leads us to the second point; he states that openly gay men don't have the restraint that normal men do. I.e. they give in to they "unnatural" urges, while normal men repress them.

It sounds to me like the reverend has a few urges of his own, but since he represses them, he can rationalize himself as not being openly gay, and therefore a "normal" person.

I mean, if he didn't want to get down and dirty, then why would he need restraint?


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Offline reaper

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2010, 07:21:25 PM »
If they're so violent, why are they always figure skating?
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2010, 09:14:17 PM »
Never fuck with an interior decorator. They will kill you deader than hell. :thumbsup:
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Offline haunted

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2010, 06:47:11 AM »
haha very true. How about the question I asked you last night in IRC quadz? (you probably responded but I forgot to look before I went to work..) I was aiming to see your opinion if you thought it was a smart decision, personally to make in America's armed services and not from a political standpoint. I agree in regard to the brit's being sensible about it.
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2010, 06:55:23 AM »
It's probably a good idea to have a queer in your platoon that is infatuated with you. If the shit goes down, you know he'll fight like hell for you, maybe even fall on a grenade for you.

Fuck Anita Bryant! :D
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Offline quadz

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2010, 01:53:09 PM »
I was aiming to see your opinion if you thought it was a smart decision, personally to make in America's armed services and not from a political standpoint.

Still not quite sure what you're asking.  But repealing DADT seems the correct decision from a human (humanist?) standpoint.

If you're asking whether it's smart for gays to out themselves once DADT has been repealed, i can only imagine that's an individual decision that would not be made lightly by people who are all too aware of the persistent social stigma they're up against.


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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2010, 03:11:07 PM »

...once DADT has been repealed, i can only imagine that's an individual decision that would not be made lightly by people who are all too aware of the persistent social stigma they're up against.

I believe they refer to that as TAYOR. Tell At Your Own Risk. Or maybe WTWASIASBDA. Way To Welcome A Soapbar In A Sock Beating, Dumb Ass.

Speaking of faggots (bundles of sticks)... I don't really understand how society can frown upon using the N word on TV and most channels tend to bleep out any mention of the word "faggot (bundle of sticks)". You sure as hell can't get away with saying "spic" on TV, and yet Carlos Mencia can say "wetback" 20 times in one episode of Mind of Mencia (praise allah that its cancelled). I say either we can use ALL discriminatory terms for race/religion/sexual preference, or don't say ANY of them. Some people being held to different standards in regards to their language for whatever bullshit reason seems to ME to be in the same vein as "discrimination".
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Offline reaper

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2010, 06:30:32 PM »
The military's objective can't be lost, unlike everything else people consider important, everything actually depends on them.   Don't ask don't tell seems to not introduce problems, and it aligns itself with American values.  Anyways, I've come up with a theory that if we utilize WoW as a phycological tool, we can get people to do just about anything.  For example if you take away their WoW you could get them to join the service, build bridges, fight malware, anything.  They would stop at nothing to get their level7 magic axe.

People living and bred in year 1200 style conditions with an axe to grind versus the WoW nuts?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 06:32:07 PM by reaper »
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Offline Arm0r

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2010, 04:06:18 PM »
I don't understand the need for this to even be considered a point of discussion in the military....you're not there to speed date, you're there to do your job.
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Gay Reichs
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2010, 06:41:28 PM »
Then again... My grandfather was in the US Army in WWII. He always said, "Nazi's are fags." Maybe this guy was talking to my grandfather and took that literally.

On the other hand... you have different fingers.
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El Box de Shoutamente

Last 10 Shouts:

Costigan_Q2

November 11, 2024, 06:41:06 AM
"Stay cozy folks.

Everything is gonna be fine."

There'll be no excuses for having TDS after January 20th, there'll be no excuses AT ALL!!!
 

|iR|Focalor

November 06, 2024, 03:28:50 AM
 

RailWolf

November 05, 2024, 03:13:44 PM
Nice :)

Tom Servo

November 04, 2024, 05:05:24 PM
The Joe Rogan Experience episode 223 that dropped a couple hours ago with Musk, they're talking about Quake lol.

Costigan_Q2

November 04, 2024, 03:37:55 PM
Stay cozy folks.

Everything is gonna be fine.
 

|iR|Focalor

October 31, 2024, 08:56:37 PM

Costigan_Q2

October 17, 2024, 06:31:53 PM
Not activated your account yet?

Activate it now! join in the fun!

Tom Servo

October 11, 2024, 03:35:36 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHA
 

|iR|Focalor

October 10, 2024, 12:19:41 PM
I don't worship the devil. Jesus is Lord, friend. He died for your sins. He will forgive you if you just ask.
 

rikwad

October 09, 2024, 07:57:21 PM
Sorry, I couldn't resist my inner asshole.

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November 25, 2024, 06:20:34 AM

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