Item Timers?

[VaeVictis]

Wanted to know opinions on item timers, those nifty little scripts that play a sound to time down your item for you

Want to know who uses them here

Want to know what the general view is towards them

Wondering if i should start using them... Seems most top duelers do

Would also like some europeans to post their opinions as well because they are MUCH more popular over in europe it seems

Would like to point out that most (if not all) top duelers in europe use item timers, including damiah and purri

[Whirlingdervish]

back when I started playing q2 again tdm was taken more seriously in NA, and a lot of the better players used them for armor, wep and mega pickups in duels and tdm games.

I don't know that anyone outright considers them cheats/bad/evil but I do recall some regular players expressing their distaste for them because it makes timing items that much easier and leaves you with the ability to concentrate better on the opponent's location and health/armor state.

To me using timer .wavs seems on par with using brightskins. It's accepted because you can't really stop it without heavily cutting into people's ability to customize their game, and it won't make you a better player by itself, just a more aware player.

I think some servers have the play command disabled, but I don't know if that is the reason.

[VaeVictis]

back when I started playing q2 again tdm was taken more seriously in NA, and a lot of the better players used them for armor, wep and mega pickups in duels and tdm games.

I don't know that anyone outright considers them cheats/bad/evil but I do recall some regular players expressing their distaste for them because it makes timing items that much easier and leaves you with the ability to concentrate better on the opponent's location and health/armor state.

To me using timer .wavs seems on par with using brightskins. It's accepted because you can't really stop it without heavily cutting into people's ability to customize their game, and it won't make you a better player by itself, just a more aware player.

I think some servers have the play command disabled, but I don't know if that is the reason.

i have seen some obvious distaste for them from some players but some average players are most often not a total representation of a community

also, i think the ts servers might have it disabled some how... idk... but i remember arch was bitching about them not working

timing items is not really hard... and i might even find that the .wav timers end up distracting... BUT if item timers are something that players like naymlis and ah still use, i may consider trying them, or finding a more convenient way through some elaborate script with an army of wait commands and team chats

i do agree that item timers in themselves will not make you a better player, but i cannot tell you how many times i have lost a close match because i showed up way too early for an item because i was mistaken on the timing

[Whirlingdervish]

I think arch is referring to the commandban on the play command.

It won't let you manually play any sound on some of the tdm servers because the command is blocked by the server config and using wait commands will leave you stuck in place, unable to enter more input until it's done waiting.

The best way I've heard of to time items using some assistance is to place a digital clock with a second counter on your desk in front of your monitor, and glance at it as you pick stuff up. Then you just have to do some quick simple math in your head to know when you need to show back up at that spot. I've heard of this being done by good players in newer games that don't allow wav timer functionality.

[UUD-40]

The best way I've heard of to time items using some assistance is to place a digital clock with a second counter on your desk in front of your monitor, and glance at it as you pick stuff up. Then you just have to do some quick simple math in your head to know when you need to show back up at that spot. I've heard of this being done by good players in newer games that don't allow wav timer functionality.

Most mods place a timer somewhere on the screen though.

[|iR|Focalor]

Personally, I think they're pretty lame. I don't really give that much of a damn if someone wants to use them for FFA or TDM pickup games, but I think they shouldn't be used in any kind of organized tourney or competition, such as Tastyspleen's weekly KOTH. At the very least, I think competitors in any tourney should at least voluntarily admit beforehand that they plan to use them. I also think all registered competitors in a tourney should vote on whether to allow them. Just seems like the fair and proper thing to me.

[console]

I think some servers have the play command disabled, but I don't know if that is the reason.

Yes, most (all?) of our tdm/tourney servers have: set sv_anticheat_disable_play "1"

Which is indeed intended to disallow WAV timers.


Regards,

[Barton]

It'd be nice to know mh timing in TDM, which is a bit of a mystery when the enemy picks it up. I find that listening to the enemy's hit grunts don't help at times, like if both players have over 100 health. If you look at Q3A, the fact that everyone has the potential ability to know the timing of all super items doesn't hurt the game's metagame. The mystery factor of item timings in that game is still possible, by delaying items.

Though I kind of like the fact that in Q2 the person or team that picked up mh has a potential advantage over their opponent(s).

As for duel, there's no need for wav timers. You can learn the timings by learning how to count and being observant. 

[VaeVictis]

i already know all the timings, live by them

20 seconds armor, 20 seconds after its burned off for mh, 30 seconds for mh, 3 minutes for back pack, and 1 minute for adrenaline

i really would have no problem at all if the clock wasnt so damn small for quake2 and i look at many pro demos of people like damiah and purri and they are using item timers... the math honestly isnt hard at all, but even though the math is easier, i find it much much easier to time on quake3 because the clock is larger, and can be told to count up...

I guess if they are banned from the servers i cant even use them if i wanted to and its nice to know that im not playing against people who are using them when i am not

[Barton]

i really would have no problem at all if the clock wasnt so damn small for quake2 and i look at many pro demos of people like damiah and purri and they are using item timers... the math honestly isnt hard at all, but even though the math is easier, i find it much much easier to time on quake3 because the clock is larger, and can be told to count up...

I know what you mean. I'm not a fan of the clock in Q2. In QL I editted my hud so I have a large clock, at the top of the screen, as appose to the bottom of the screen like it's in Q2.

Since I never heard of anyone doing this kind of editing in Q2, I just use two monitors. One monitor displays the game, while the other one has a digital clock (http://onlineclock.net/) on screen, which I use to count items instead of the clock in the game. This idea works great for ffa servers which have no in-game clocks. I need a dual monitor setup again.  

[VaeVictis]

the problem i have with that, is that its only one single step above retarded halo players taping stop watches to their controllers lol

[l0ckp1ck]

i was reading an article about mods in q2 and weather or not it is considerd cheating using these types of paks, and it was the belief of some that anything that alters the game from its original state is considered cheating because you are using it an a way it was not intended. my own view is you can hear when someone grabs armour and mega and know how long something is going to take to respawn so having an aid telling you when it will in my opinion isn't really cheating. i haven't tried a pak like that but i do use a brightskin pak, helps me see better. So no i don't think its cheating personally. as long as u r not botting or walling, using spiked skins or nose paks i spose pretty much anything goes

[peewee_RotA]

To me, the use of item timers represents going to extreme measures for a minor advantage. It's taking the need to win way too seriously. It's not a game ruining cheat, and if it were already built in for all players to see, then it would be a different story. But as it stands now people who use item timers amount to a player that "don't wash his jocky strap because he thinks flies are lucky"

[[BTF] Reflex]

I have a 20 second timer,  use it occasionally. 

But when on the TDM servers that don't allow it,  I have an easy enough time doing it in my head.

[Slayer :D]

using spiked skins or nose paks i spose pretty much anything goes

DON'T!!!
Those are cheating!