network help

[X'tyfe]

heyas

hoping someone here knows a thing or 2 about small networks
i have about 4 computers in my house, 3 of them are hooked up to the network
my isp requires me to have a lease a diff ip addess for the extra computers
its like 20$ per extra ip address a month, its pretty expencive. and it would cost me another 20 to hook the 4th up to my network

i know its possible to hook them all up to one ip, and my isp wouldnt get cranky
but i also know that there is problems with sharing one ip aswell
the users that use the other computers dont crae if they have to share an ip
but i would like to have my own

is it possible for one computer to have an ip address, but the others all share a second?
or is it totaly random who gets the ips? cus thats what i thought, and thats why i have continued to lease these ips
 

[ĄƦçɧąɳɠҾԼ]

Unless they are doing stuff that is easier to do with their own IP, such as VPN and stuff, then I would just use a router with one IP and save the money, because I doubt they are giving you anymore bandwidth for those extra IPs.

There are no problems with sharing an IP with a router as far as I know, only the router will use your public IP (from the ISP) and then the router assigns IPs to the computers (192.168.xxx.xxx).

[X'tyfe]

i had a router once, there a pain in the arse to setup not to mention most of them have built in firewalls
the one i had, had a firewall that i couldnt shut off

is there something better a router? i just use a crappy hub atm
was thinking of getting a switch tho

i wonder if i canceled those 2 other ips, if mine would stay as it is
and the other computers would share a second? since my isp has already been assigned it to me

[ĄƦçɧąɳɠҾԼ]

i had a router once, there a pain in the arse to setup not to mention most of them have built in firewalls
the one i had, had a firewall that i couldnt shut off

Routers are the best way to go, the built in firewall is there to protect you from the nasty stuff.

is there something better a router? i just use a crappy hub atm
was thinking of getting a switch tho

Switches are better than hubs, but it would still be best to get a router.

i wonder if i canceled those 2 other ips, if mine would stay as it is
and the other computers would share a second? since my isp has already been assigned it to me

You can't share an IP without a router, two systems can't use the same IP.

Best thing to do is get a router, there not really that hard to set up.  If you need help in forwarding ports you can go to www.portforward.com and select your router and get help with that.

Alternatively if you have an old computer laying around, throw an extra NIC in it and put either Smoothwall or IPcop on it, both are very easy to use.
www.smoothwall.org
www.ipcop.org

[X'tyfe]

i already have 2 firewalls :p i dont why i would need a 3rd rofl
are there routers without firewalls? or routers that dont restrict me
i still have to open ports in routers dont i?
i dont want to have to do that everytime i want to use programs. thats what i ment by it being a pain in the arse to setup ;p
the firewalls ask me when a program uses the net for the first time, and after wards automaticly opens the ports for them
if there is a such a router, then i would get one :0

[ĄƦçɧąɳɠҾԼ]

Your running two software firewalls    not such a great idea, a little redundant and can probably cause some issues.

The firewall in the router is to protect you from unauthorized incoming connections, not outgoing.  It's a good idea to use a software firewall to regulate what programs are allowed to use the connection.

When you forward the ports in the router you only have to do it once, then any program that uses that port can use it on the computer you forwarded it too, don't have to do it on an individual basis for each program, just need to foward what ports are needed to which ever computer is going to be running programs that need those ports.

Though you will not be able to forward the same port to two computers, so if you have programs that use those same ports for things then you will have to change the ports that those programs use, for example if you run a BitTorrent client on computer one, then forward the port it uses to computer one (port 6881 tcp to 192.168.0.1), and you want to run a BitTorrent client on computer two then you would have to set it up to use a different port and forward that port to computer two (port 6882 tcp to 192.168.0.2).

You say that the other people don't care about sharing an IP, so just lease the two IPs ( one for you and one for them ), put them on the router and you have the direct connection.  If you want your computer connected to theirs for LAN, then throw a second NIC in your PC and connect that to the router and use it to access their PC's.

[X'tyfe]

its a software and hardware
2 software would be dumb i know

im confused :p does forwarding mean open the ports? and does that mean i can only open that port on one computer?
ill try what you suggested at the bottom, that makes the most sence to me haha, i was going to need to get a bigger hub anyways
so ill just try out a router instead

[ĄƦçɧąɳɠҾԼ]

People sometimes refer to it as opening ports, which is what your doing, Port Forwarding is the techinal term for it.  And yes you can only open the port for one computer, because if your trying to use the same port on two computers at the same time, it would cause the data to become corrupt, so they don't allow this.

I would recommend a switch over a hub, in the future.  Hubs broadcast packets to all computers connected, so the PCs have to examine the packets to see if it's meant for them.  A switch will examine the packets and send it immediatly to the correct PC, this will improve bandwidth usage on the LAN.  Routers use switches.

[X'tyfe]

when i bought the hub, i didnt know any better
thanks for the advice, so what does www.portforward.com do? is iti like a guide? or some sort of app to help open ports?

[ĄƦçɧąɳɠҾԼ]

That's ok, I didn't know any better either when I got my 10Mbps hub. Still using it for my LAN 

portforward.com has guides to help you forward ports for what ever program you choose.  You just select your router, select the program, put info into the boxes on there and it tells you what to put in your router.

[X'tyfe]

good stuff, that shall be a big help
so does it scan my comp for program that use the net and figure out what ports they use or something?

[ĄƦçɧąɳɠҾԼ]

No you pick from a list of programs after you select your router from the list of routers.  They have a lot of programs listed, even Quake 2 and 3, but you only need to forward ports for that if your ruinning a server.

[Art]

How bout some router suggestions and whys
wired or wireless ?
brand ?
just to name a couple.

My present router is the D-Link D1-704P
This is the second one I've owned. I trashed the linksys due to instability. It was highly suseptical to power surges and blips. The d-link is 100x better in this regard. The second reason is for the printer port. Now either computer can acccess the printer without the other being powered up.

Oh yeah, you can bypass the builtin firewall capabilities of a router with DMZ mode. I personaly don't know why anyone would want to do this though.

[X'tyfe]

wired pwns wireless IMO
any brand aslong as easy to configure and stuff

[Art]

wired pwns wireless IMO
any brand aslong as easy to configure and stuff

Yes, at the moment, I prefer wired also.
Trust me, you don't want the linksys router I previously had. It would drive you nuts losing your network everytime the household voltage dropped a few, like when the central heat or a/c  comes on, the wife runs the vaccum cleaner, or your daughter blow-dries her hair. 'course if you don't have a wife and daughter or central heat and air, it might be fine.